Re: modutils for both redhat kernels and 2.5.x

["Bill Beebe" <wbeebe@cfl.rr.com>]

I too run with Red Hat 8.0. I had to build 2.5.49-ac1 with module loading
disabled (I also got some excellent help/clues from Rusty Lynch when it
wouldn't link). Because of that I've got a rather large kernel (~1.6meg)
sitting in /boot right now. I can run (in X even) with 2.5.49-ac1, but I
wouldn't want to do that for long periods of time until I better understand
what's going on with the kernel. And brother, am I ever confused. BTW, just to
fan the flames even further, I built 49-ac1 with gcc 3.2.1.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Beam" <jfbeam@bluetronic.net>
To: "Rusty Russell" <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>; "Adam J. Richter"
<adam@freya.yggdrasil.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: modutils for both redhat kernels and 2.5.x


> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Rusty Russell wrote:
> >> I would beg and plead with Linus to back that "crap" out of the kernel
> >> until such time as it has a snowball's chance of actually working ...
> >> anywhere.  As it stands, 2.5 is now 100% unusable until modules works
> >> again.
> >
> >Funny, other people seem to be using it.
>
> I'm using a fresh redhat 8.0 install.  With the standard modutils, nothing
> loads.  With the updated 2.4.22 modutils, again, nothing loads.  With
> module-init-tool 0.7, none of the redhat startup scripts will work because
> they depend on "modprobe -c"
>
> >> Kernel symbol versioning no longer exists.
> >
> >That this patch has not yet been merged is crippling your development
> >efforts HOW, exactly?  I was clearly mistaken when I thought that this
> >was low priority.
>
> Well excuse me if I get more than a little ticked off after seeing people
> break prefectly functional systems that have been so for years.  Did the
> existing system need replacing?  Maybe.  Exactly what does a new "in
> kernel module loader" provide that demands it be included in the kernel
> right-this-very-minute?  What's so important that everything gets broken
> right at the moment things are supposed to be settling down? (I often
> wonder if Linus completely skipped source code management class.)
>
> >> Depmod no longer exists.
> >
> >This is true.  It doesn't need to for 0.7, but it's being reintroduced
> >in 0.8 for speed.
>
> And along those lines, we don't "need" modules either.
>
> >> Modprobe blindly loads a string of modules without even looking to see
> >> if it's already loaded.
> >
> >Yes, this is a bug (and one not reported by anyone, either).  Should
> >be fixed in 0.8.
>
> You call it a bug; I call it a lame oversite.
>
> >> The command line args for modprobe are laughingly few (and none of
> >> the ones a redhat system needs to boot are implemented.)
> >
> >Really?  I don't recall seeing a bug report from you about it.  My
> >Debian system boots fine.
>
> Read the man page for "modprobe".  How much of your version comes anywhere
> near that?  One cannot blindly change the command line interface of an
> integral tool without knowing they are going to seriously break things.
>
> >> We're back to the flat module namespace (that patch of earth is now 100%
> >> salt...)
> >
> >Um, we always had a flat module namespace.  *ALWAYS*.  We did put the
> >modules into subdirectories though.  Due to Adam Richter's hard work,
> >with 0.8 we can restore this (basically for the benifit of mkinitrd,
> >which I also don't use).
>
> Really.  Then why the months of holy wars for and against directories?
> And at various points throughout history, there have been totally separate
> modules with the same name.
>
> >> And every single object that forms a module will need to be
> >> retooled to adhere to the new module API
> >
> >Really?  How fascinating.  I must admit that I hadn't noticed that.
>
> So, are *you* going to go rewrite every single one of those drivers?
> Don't, for one second, think the original author(s) and/or current
> maintainer(s) are gonna flock to the "new way".  As I pointed out, there
> are dozens of drivers that still haven't been converted to the new DMA
> format -- and that's been on the table for a lot longer.
>
> If Linus and company are happy to keep pushing 2.6/3.0/whatever back
> several more years, then, by all means, keep re-inventing long accepted
> core components and half integrated them a week after "feature freeze"
> and "code freeze".
>
> "Introducing, The New Wheel (tm)... 3.2% rounder than any previous wheel."
>
> --Ricky
>
>
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