From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA7D9251793; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 20:03:52 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=103.168.172.146 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740773035; cv=none; b=d7rWsWxPS6k/tJ48srmrjTnJ75Rfg5mH2ZlJUkgM4F3GKU4fotCU7hFswQkAmYrLGd1/sdC/ROH/n7wXcd4MJMS2B+4HzT7DSf3J3lcPw6gGEVlAQfVWfkJQxMV8gj8l+HD9rHGZdZsk01rrPVHyZgnWiK1AAghBss2CfTT6A/4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740773035; c=relaxed/simple; bh=nFP+C540tk3X6xmpiQ6nE9j425j4j6sXR0rZTPN2pB8=; h=MIME-Version:Date:From:To:Cc:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References: Subject:Content-Type; b=hU7hkIFH5RTGbjgcG9I5a0my6PZmRzT8Ihskw+UeS+uEsBfr6QbSieSNz+5pG0p5IUemMUOz/Zyrul6rZXaZ/S5x5WyfM2m8K4a7bSP9rAjkNE5/pt653oFkIe4VY2vMsWOBDCOsRrSo4Rb+RWtodXq8F8R7Tx2vF24bvnDNYts= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=squebb.ca; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=squebb.ca; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=squebb.ca header.i=@squebb.ca header.b=eEKFrIBw; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=5ovHJHK1; arc=none smtp.client-ip=103.168.172.146 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=squebb.ca Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=squebb.ca Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=squebb.ca header.i=@squebb.ca header.b="eEKFrIBw"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="5ovHJHK1" Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F008A1380A2C; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:03:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-imap-10 ([10.202.2.85]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:03:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=squebb.ca; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1740773031; x=1740859431; bh=wPYXLIBT+Wmadp6rYziFldTcVGulm1uvonrgbV8TXWE=; b= eEKFrIBwrIFEhG4tjJhhXUrW1nNf0rWs/ioC0iuTxIODGWMfMBVY9PDSVUTkUElT z9NPTtaXwwCH63YJ4+ayq/IG8r8W3M1QgWYjTtW2E75UZzido1HVcx+fAy/+Wm8N doZLvad/JFMoXBcuX9kbdz0ajrVsGJndTjURiTrZ1pmqq2feMkBow9Ue3JkOwn9B c99ZXtXTTaTzK9QgOWzQunhI6mKRUfaiF1JUqsS+YT665nJBwVYaugGjXQMgr5NJ H0IcA1Hxhq0yGlzIGQRvIuc7rGeQVcuQAHJc0WW6RAO707R2GNxARID4wZGPcc/J elmf8Lsq205P4cPJKsgvZQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1740773031; x= 1740859431; bh=wPYXLIBT+Wmadp6rYziFldTcVGulm1uvonrgbV8TXWE=; b=5 ovHJHK1xYYDjVF/+yOGMI80utAj0qxLXxHf3EkvSjrsnOMx06+1NpLk7sJRj3oCS O2H5oCQJtm2I0r7gnwHX+//V+vQHlyNF+0qSbj4dsbA2qA9lyIHXUssaNlvP5Zbl kcLC5bvsHz2mJEJt91o6gqC3xtB6gLC9iszsl/8aPOvdSRQJEW73KwW5IrMUs0Nn R3vkJza10QbCCTb91JXhCi6k20dIW3fCIP4T+VaoLOlGG6bpaq2+IosIkd+BZsp9 ZMJI88kb8wsuXV0ErkIphYEjVq8RUtq94D+0L2f+21QFnyZk+i/8WrYB/d+aenYW kdC4+JIKnhH+tRB1aenLw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgdeludeftdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivg hnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefoggffhffvvefkjghfufgtgfesthejredtredt tdenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrkhcurfgvrghrshhonhdfuceomhhpvggrrhhsohhnqdhlvg hnohhvohesshhquhgvsggsrdgtrgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdffvefgtefhveet uddvfeelveektdduvdelgfehgfeikeffjeetjeevffektdfhnecuffhomhgrihhnpehkvg hrnhgvlhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhl fhhrohhmpehmphgvrghrshhonhdqlhgvnhhovhhosehsqhhuvggssgdrtggrpdhnsggprh gtphhtthhopedugedpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepshhhhigrmhdq shhunhgurghrrdhsqdhksegrmhgurdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepmhgrrhhiohdrlhhimh honhgtihgvlhhlohesrghmugdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehlkhhmlhesrghnthhhvggr shdruggvvhdprhgtphhtthhopegsvghnrghtohdruggvnhhishelieesghhmrghilhdrtg homhdprhgtphhtthhopeguvghrvghkjhhohhhnrdgtlhgrrhhksehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhm pdhrtghpthhtoheprhgrfhgrvghlsehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehsuh hpvghrmhdusehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehmvgeskhihlhgvghhoshhp ohgunhgvthhirdgthhdprhgtphhtthhopehilhhpohdrjhgrrhhvihhnvghnsehlihhnuh igrdhinhhtvghlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ibe194615:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 31B093C0066; Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:03:51 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 15:03:29 -0500 From: "Mark Pearson" To: "Mario Limonciello" , "Shyam Sundar S K" , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , "Hans de Goede" , =?UTF-8?Q?Ilpo_J=C3=A4rvinen?= , "Luke D . Jones" Cc: "platform-driver-x86@vger.kernel.org" , "open list" , "linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org" , "Derek J . Clark" , "Antheas Kapenekakis" , me@kylegospodneti.ch, "Denis Benato" , "Limonciello, Mario" Message-Id: <07a94bc8-ee1a-41ea-bfd9-44c7f7188680@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d76a774-9dad-4c94-b4df-7c040e9dbc47@kernel.org> References: <20250228170155.2623386-1-superm1@kernel.org> <7d76a774-9dad-4c94-b4df-7c040e9dbc47@kernel.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Add support for hidden choices to platform_profile Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, at 2:44 PM, Mario Limonciello wrote: > On 2/28/2025 13:39, Mark Pearson wrote: >> Hi Mario, >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, at 12:01 PM, Mario Limonciello wrote: >>> From: Mario Limonciello >>> >>> When two drivers provide platform profile handlers but use different >>> strings to mean (essentially) the same thing the legacy interface won't >>> export them because it only shows profiles common to multiple drivers. >>> >>> This causes an unexpected behavior to people who have upgraded from an >>> earlier kernel because if multiple drivers have bound platform profile >>> handlers they might not be able to access profiles they were expecting. >>> >>> Introduce a concept of a "hidden choice" that drivers can register and >>> the platform profile handler code will utilize when using the legacy >>> interface. >>> >>> There have been some other attempts at solving this issue in other ways. >>> This serves as an alternative to those attempts. >>> >>> Link: >>> https://lore.kernel.org/platform-driver-x86/e64b771e-3255-42ad-9257-5b8fc6c24ac9@gmx.de/T/#t >>> Link: >>> https://lore.kernel.org/platform-driver-x86/CAGwozwF-WVEgiAbWbRCiUaXf=BVa3KqmMJfs06trdMQHpTGmjQ@mail.gmail.com/T/#m2f3929e2d4f73cc0eedd14738170dad45232fd18 >>> Cc: Antheas Kapenekakis >>> Cc: "Luke D. Jones" >>> >>> Mario Limonciello (3): >>> ACPI: platform_profile: Add support for hidden choices >>> platform/x86/amd: pmf: Add 'quiet' to hidden choices >>> platform/x86/amd: pmf: Add balanced-performance to hidden choices >>> >>> drivers/acpi/platform_profile.c | 94 +++++++++++++++++++++++------- >>> drivers/platform/x86/amd/pmf/sps.c | 11 ++++ >>> include/linux/platform_profile.h | 3 + >>> 3 files changed, 87 insertions(+), 21 deletions(-) >>> >>> -- >>> 2.43.0 >> >> The patches are all good - but my question is do we really need the whole hidden implementation bit? >> >> If the options are not hidden, and someone chooses quiet or balanced-performance for the amd-pmf driver - does it really matter that it's going to do the same as low-power or performance? >> >> So, same feedback as I had for Antheas's patches. I understand why this is being proposed but for me it is making things unnecessarily complicated. >> >> My personal vote remains that the amd_pmf driver carries the superset to keep everyone happy (sorry - it sucks to be the CPU vendor that has to play nice with everyone). >> >> Mark > > Well so the problem with having all of them is specifically what happens > when "only" amd-pmf is bound? > > If you advertise both "low power" and "quiet" it's really confusing to > userspace what the difference is. Ah - I guess you get platforms without profile support where amd-pmf is the only thing. I hadn't considered that. FWIW, I believe we (Lenovo) have both low power and quiet on Windows...and they really don't make much difference (which is why the thermal team didn't do them both on Linux). I don't know if Windows users are more or less confused (or maybe they've just abandoned all hope and are migrating to Linux...) You have a better feeling as to how many issues you'll get raised if they behave the same, and have to support a wider ecosystem, so I'm happy to be over-ruled. I just wanted to wave my flag that I think the driver is getting too complicated. I'm slightly dreading having to debug customer issues at this point. > > The fact that it's actually 100% the same brings me to my personal > opinion on all of this. Although I spent time writing up this series to > do it this way my "preference" is that we permanently alias "low power" > and "quiet" to one another and update all drivers to use "low power" > instead. > Guaranteed if you do that some vendor will have something that differentiates. I can see having a 'use as much power as possible without needing fans' for quiet, and 'make the battery last as long as humanely possible whilst keeping the system usable' mode for low-power. Don't think anyone has done it...but they could. > Granted that doesn't help the case of balance-performance being hidden > that Antheas mentioned for acer-wmi and legion-wmi but I don't know > serious of a problem that actually is. I really have to go play with this on the Legion-Go. I need a time-machine..... Mark