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From: Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy@goop.org>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, andre@linux-ide.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Gauntlet Set NOW!
Date: 09 Jan 2003 00:57:16 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1042102636.27634.115.camel@ixodes.goop.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3E1D2E12.27417587@digeo.com>

On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 00:08, Andrew Morton wrote:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > That's not the FSF's view.  Our view is that just using structure
> > definitions, typedefs, enumeration constants, macros with simple
> > bodies, etc., is NOT enough to make a derivative work.  It would take
> > a substantial amount of code (coming from inline functions or macros
> > with substantial bodies) to do that.
> 
> The last part doesn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> Use of an inline function is just that: usage.  It matters not at
> all whether that function is invoked via inline integration or via
> subroutine call.  This is merely an implementation detail within
> the code which provides that function.
> 
> Such functions are part of the offered API which have global scope,
> that's all.

The thing that copyright law cares about is whether the thing you're
shipping (in binary form) is a derivative work of something else; the
GPL cares if that "something else" is licensed under the GPL because it
requires the whole to be also (at least) GPL'd.  Merely calling a
function from a piece of code doesn't make that code a derivative work
of the called function, but it would if the function were inlined.

If a non-GPL piece of code depends on a piece of GPL'd code, but they
are not shipped in a bound state (ie, dynamically linked), then the
non-GPL code is not obligated to be GPL'd because it isn't a derivative
work.  This isn't the stated position of the FSF (at least last time I
asked, because they don't consider static and dynamic binding to be
separate cases), but it's the only one which makes sense in terms of
looking at code in the binary and how it got there. 

There's a more complex argument that merely depending on GPL'd code (as
a client of a GPL'd library, for example) makes your program a
derivative work, even if your distributed binary contains no GPL'd
code.  This argument is based on the assumption that you're depending on
an API for which all the implementations are GPL'd, so there's no way
you can run the code without binding to GPL'd code.  All it takes is one
non-GPL'd implementation to break this argument.

Bear in mind that the GPL only governs the act of distribution, so
creating a derivative work dynamically at runtime is not subject to the
GPL.  Doing it statically means that you have to distribute the
derivative work, which is subject to the GPL.

Also bear in mind that copyright law only protects things with a
creative input; you cannot copyright pure facts.  As Richard says, the
FSF considers things like function names, types, structure definitions,
constants, etc to be pure facts which are necessary to know to call an
API (and extends that to include small pieces of code, where "small" is
not well defined).  The implementation of the API itself *is* creative,
and is therefore protected by copyright law.  Hence the distinction
between definitions and larger inlined implementations.

Since the thing that is under consideration is not source code, but the
distribution of binaries generated from the source, it is not merely an
implementation detail as to whether a piece of code is included by
reference (ie, an out-of-line function call) or included explicitly
(inlined code).  It makes the difference between a non-derivative work
and a derivative work.

	J

[Not a lawyer, but I've spent a lot of time talking to them about this
stuff.  Not that it makes this message at all valuable or reliable. ]


  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-09  8:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 252+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-31  3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31  6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05   ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19     ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22       ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31         ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14     ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49   ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26     ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36       ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44         ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  0:31   ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:08     ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:29       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:21         ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:38           ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:37     ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  2:57       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  5:58         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  6:14           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  4:06               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  5:00                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03  5:15                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  8:31                   ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03  5:04                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03  5:12                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16                     ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51                       ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46                           ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04                                 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37                                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  1:43                                     ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06  5:26                                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44                                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06                                           ` Mark Mielke
     [not found]                             ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23                               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07  9:08                                 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28                                       ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46                                           ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00                                               ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31                             ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  1:33                                 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19                             ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37                               ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44                                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52                               ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41                               ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53                             ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37                           ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38                         ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10                           ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04  1:51                           ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04  1:24                             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04  5:28                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04  8:06                               ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04  8:21                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03  6:04                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03  6:29                   ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03  7:04                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31                     ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  1:34                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16                     ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04  6:55                   ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  9:06                     ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:10                     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05  0:00                     ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05  0:26                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  1:48                         ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14                     ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58                             ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53                         ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05                         ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29                           ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31                           ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39                           ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17                               ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26                                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40                                       ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10  0:02                                       ` yodaiken
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10                                   ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08  9:04                                   ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23                                     ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09                                       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09  9:08                                         ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27                                       ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53                                   ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  0:12                                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36                                       ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10                                       ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58                                           ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37                                               ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23                                                 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03  4:38               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58                       ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  4:55                           ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01                   ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56                     ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  7:12                       ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04  9:14                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  9:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31                               ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43                                 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56                               ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:22                         ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05  5:33                           ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05  5:12                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05  5:31                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  7:41                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09  8:08                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09  8:57                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge [this message]
2003-01-09 23:06                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03  7:51               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27                     ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08                         ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34                         ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04  0:55                     ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  2:22                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04  3:18                         ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  3:18                           ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04  6:00                       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  7:34                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  7:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:36                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  8:52                           ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  9:16                             ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 21:47                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04  1:19                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:32                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  2:22                       ` venom
2003-01-05  9:38                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  3:10                   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  0:17                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  4:39                         ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-05  5:35                           ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24                             ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07  0:08                                 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53                                 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06                             ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03                         ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33                   ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52                 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  6:12       ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  6:26         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  8:51         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  1:57     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02  1:32       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39     ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04  9:55 Gauntlet Set NOW! Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04 10:07 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:28   ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 10:12 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04 10:42 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 10:38 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-05 23:40 ` Florian Schmitt
2003-01-04 10:57 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-04 16:35 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-05  6:28 Hell.Surfers

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