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From: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
To: Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de>
Cc: Sven-Thorsten Dietrich <sdietrich@mvista.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	dwalker@mvista.com, bhuey@lnxw.com, nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au,
	hch@infradead.org, akpm@osdl.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: RT patch acceptance
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 11:03:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1117184630.6736.415.camel@tglx.tec.linutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050526202747.GB86087@muc.de>

On Thu, 2005-05-26 at 22:27 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> I really dislike the idea of interrupt threads. It seems totally
> wrong to me to make such a fundamental operation as an interrupt
> much slower.  If really any interrupts take too long they should
> move to workqueues instead and be preempted there. 

I don't see a real good argument why an interrupt is such a fundamental
operation which has to be treated seperately. It is a computation type
with a set of constraints. It depends on your system requirements which
importance and execution mechanism you select for the computation in
order to fulfil the constraints.

If you want deterministic control in an OS you have to control _all_
computation types by the scheduler. IRQ to thread conversion is one of
many mechanisms to gain control over the execution behaviour of
interrupt type computations. It has an nice advantage over other
mechanisms as it is simple to understand; people are used to deal with
threads and priorities.

> But keep
> the basic fundamental operations fast please (at least that used to be one
> of the Linux mottos that served it very well for many years, although more
> and more people seem to forget it now) 

"It has been that way since ages" arguments are not really productive in
a discussion. If you look at the history of Linux over the years, many
things which seemed to be untouchable have been changed in order to make
it usable for specific application types.

Linux deals quite well with a broad range of application scenarios and
there is quite a lot of interest from industrial users to have RT
features included. Sure you may argue that the addon solutions,
nanokernel approaches are available for that, but industrial users are
looking for a scalable all in one solution, where they can turn on the
features they need for the specific application.


tglx



  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-05-27  9:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 345+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-05-23 23:14 Daniel Walker
2005-05-24  2:01 ` john cooper
2005-05-24  5:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-24  6:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  8:03     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24  8:15       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  8:27         ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24  9:02           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  9:14             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24 10:13               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 18:05               ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 22:41                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-24 23:44                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  0:10                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  0:32                       ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-25  0:45                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  1:32                           ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-25  0:45                       ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  0:59                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  1:02                           ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  1:43                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-25  2:02                               ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  2:20                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-25  2:26                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:24                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  3:36                                       ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  5:05                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  6:09                                           ` RT patch acceptance (scheduler) Bill Huey
2005-05-25  7:00                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  9:27                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 14:50                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25 15:12                                                   ` RT patch acceptance (scheduler) --- QUESTION Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-25 15:36                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25  6:05                                       ` RT patch acceptance Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 18:50                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:26                                   ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25  5:17                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25 13:20                                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25  6:33                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  7:18                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  7:46                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 10:51                                         ` Con Kolivas
2005-05-25  8:29                                     ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2005-05-25 13:23                                     ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25 17:17                                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-25 17:52                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25 18:00                                       ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 19:32                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-26 20:11                                           ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 20:27                                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-26 20:46                                               ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 23:57                                                 ` john cooper
2005-05-26 21:28                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-26 23:44                                               ` john cooper
2005-05-27  5:19                                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27  5:24                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27  7:18                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27  8:07                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 15:56                                                     ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-28  3:59                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-27  7:20                                                 ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-27  8:17                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 10:17                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-27 17:46                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-27 12:08                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27 12:10                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 20:36                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27 12:43                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 23:36                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  3:53                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-28  4:27                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-28  4:43                                                           ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-28  5:53                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  5:45                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  6:49                                                           ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-29 11:37                                                             ` James Bruce
2005-05-29 12:23                                                               ` Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-30  9:37                                                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 13:43                                                                 ` James Bruce
2005-05-30 14:21                                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 22:27                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 22:54                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 23:05                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:29                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  1:21                                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31  2:09                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31  9:12                                                                           ` James Bruce
2005-05-31  9:33                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31 10:23                                                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 10:48                                                                               ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 11:06                                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31 11:14                                                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-31 11:31                                                                                   ` Hari N
2005-05-31 16:59                                                                                   ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 12:09                                                                                 ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 16:18                                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 16:42                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 17:11                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 17:42                                                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 17:51                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 18:29                                                                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 20:54                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 21:22                                                                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 21:47                                                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 22:24                                                                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 23:41                                                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:50                                                                                                     ` Zan Lynx
2005-06-01  2:38                                                                                                     ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-31 22:15                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 22:33                                                                                                   ` NZG
2005-05-31 23:14                                                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 21:33                                                                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 23:59                                                                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:57                                                                                             ` Brian O'Mahoney
2005-06-01  6:23                                                                                             ` John Alvord
2005-06-01 11:41                                                                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:26                                                                                   ` Peter Chubb
2005-06-01  8:17                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 14:30                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 15:07                                                                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 16:11                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 18:36                                                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2005-05-31 20:45                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01  1:14                                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01  1:30                                                                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  1:50                                                                                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01  2:42                                                                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2005-06-01 12:18                                                                                           ` Paulo Marques
2005-06-01 13:51                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:19                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 14:32                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:39                                                                                                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-06-01 14:45                                                                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 14:57                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:45                                                                                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:05                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:15                                                                                                       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:32                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:30                                                                                                         ` pi_test predicted results Daniel Walker
2005-06-01 17:58                                                                                                           ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:33                                                                                                       ` RT patch acceptance Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01 15:38                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:53                                                                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-01 19:22                                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 19:34                                                                                                               ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 19:59                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:17                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 20:32                                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:46                                                                                                                       ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 21:07                                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 21:29                                                                                                                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2005-06-01 21:39                                                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 22:29                                                                                                                               ` Nicolas Pitre
2005-06-01 23:44                                                                                                                                 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-06-01 21:42                                                                                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 21:59                                                                                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 22:32                                                                                                                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 23:02                                                                                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 23:19                                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-02  8:50                                                                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 23:59                                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-02  0:03                                                                                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 19:39                                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 20:44                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:56                                                                                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-01 21:09                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:46                                                                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:56                                                                                                     ` Chris Friesen
2005-06-01 14:58                                                                                                     ` Paulo Marques
2005-06-01 15:17                                                                                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:33                                                                                                         ` john cooper
2005-06-01 15:43                                                                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:19                                                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01 14:59                                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:47                                                                                                       ` NZG
2005-06-01 15:58                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:20                                                                                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-01 18:19                                                                                                         ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:09                                                                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  9:14                                                                         ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 23:32                                                                     ` James Bruce
2005-05-31  1:22                                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31  2:06                                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31  2:26                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31  7:34                                                                         ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 19:10                                                                       ` Elladan
2005-05-30 22:10                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 17:53                                                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 19:24                                                                 ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 19:44                                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 21:44                                                                     ` Rich Walker
2005-05-30 22:45                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:03                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 23:12                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:31                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  0:00                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 11:25                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-29  1:55                                                           ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29  2:48                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-29  2:58                                                               ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29  4:08                                                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-29 15:00                                                                   ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29 17:50                                                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-29 19:52                                                                       ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29 21:16                                                                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-30 13:01                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 14:30                                                             ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-28  6:55                                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 10:22                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:24                                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 10:36                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:34                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:50                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:48                                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 11:01                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 11:32                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27  9:03                                               ` Thomas Gleixner [this message]
2005-05-27  9:14                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27  9:22                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-14  0:48                                                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-06-14  3:29                                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-06-14  3:38                                                       ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-26 20:38                                           ` john cooper
2005-05-26 21:00                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 21:23                                               ` john cooper
2005-05-26 20:52                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-26 21:09                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 21:14                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
     [not found]                                           ` <20050526200424.GA27162@elte.hu>
     [not found]                                             ` <20050527123529.GD86087@muc.de>
2005-05-27 12:48                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 12:56                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-27 13:13                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:31                                                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-27 13:44                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:50                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:53                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-28 19:55                                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-28 20:57                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-05-27 13:56                                                       ` Takashi Iwai
2005-05-27 14:27                                                         ` Duncan Sands
2005-05-27 16:35                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-30  9:53                                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 10:33                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-30 10:56                                                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 12:10                                                               ` what is the -RT tree Ingo Molnar
2005-05-30 12:40                                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 13:30                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 16:18                                                                   ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-30 11:15                                                             ` RT patch acceptance Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-27 13:34                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  3:48                                 ` john cooper
2005-05-25 11:35                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 13:14                                     ` john cooper
2005-05-25  6:09                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  1:05                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  2:37                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  2:36                     ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  2:56                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  3:05                       ` Chris Friesen
2005-05-25 19:24                       ` Tim Bird
2005-05-25  2:38                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  2:58                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  2:51                         ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  6:15                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 13:25                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  8:16                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 13:27                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25 17:32                         ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-25 18:16                           ` Chris Friesen
2005-05-27  2:29                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25 16:01                     ` Jonathan Corbet
2005-05-24 11:22           ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-24 15:21             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24 15:41               ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-24 17:31                 ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 15:56               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 23:21               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-24 15:44         ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 15:47           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 16:27           ` john cooper
2005-05-24 18:01         ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24  9:38   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-24 13:29     ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 13:58       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-24 14:42         ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 15:23           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 16:17             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 21:23               ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-24 22:31                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 22:54                   ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-24 23:41                   ` Lee Revell
     [not found]                     ` <1116979434.2912.63.camel@mindpipe>
2005-05-25  0:48                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 23:46                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:38                     ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-24 23:49                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 14:26                     ` Philippe Gerum
2005-05-24 14:47         ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-24 17:22         ` Philippe Gerum
2005-05-25  0:21           ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  2:04     ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25 20:58 ` Tom Vier
2005-05-25 21:05   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 21:10     ` NZG
2005-05-25 21:25     ` Tom Vier
2005-05-25 21:43       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 21:45       ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 21:43   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  6:55 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-25  7:06 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  7:58 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-06-01 17:56 ` Paul G. Allen
2005-05-25 18:10 YhLu
2005-05-25 18:51 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30  8:25 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-30  9:49 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 10:16 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-30 10:43 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 11:34   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 11:58     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 18:26       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-30 18:37       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 18:56         ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 18:58           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 19:33           ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 19:46             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 20:00             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  8:53               ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 22:01               ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01  0:38                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 22:34           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 22:49             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 22:49               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:15                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  0:07                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-31 16:29                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 19:52                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:16                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 21:36                       ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 19:55                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:01                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-31 20:10                       ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:14                       ` David Lang
2005-06-01  2:06                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01  2:13                           ` David Lang
2005-05-30 16:33 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-31  4:39 Saksena, Manas

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