From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755107AbYE1Wfm (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 May 2008 18:35:42 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753007AbYE1Wfc (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 May 2008 18:35:32 -0400 Received: from accolon.hansenpartnership.com ([76.243.235.52]:52384 "EHLO accolon.hansenpartnership.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752801AbYE1Wfb (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 May 2008 18:35:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2008-discuss] Fixing the Kernel Janitors project From: James Bottomley To: David Woodhouse Cc: Pekka Enberg , ksummit-2008-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel In-Reply-To: <1212013125.2236.58.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> References: <1211995212.3445.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1212007760.2236.17.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <1212008517.3445.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> <84144f020805281431y1aac903am442b333a2a13cd15@mail.gmail.com> <1212010931.3445.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1212013125.2236.58.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:35:27 -0500 Message-Id: <1212014127.3445.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.1 (2.22.1-2.fc9) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 01:18 +0300, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 16:42 -0500, James Bottomley wrote: > > Appeals to be politer tend to only work in the short term (having given > > quite a few of them). I think we're developing a root cause problem in > > the way we recruit people to work in the kernel and we have to think > > about fixing it there. > > Do we really have a problem recruiting people to work in the kernel? On > what do you base that observation? Yes, the median age of the MAINTAINERS is rising. Not quite at the rate of a year per year which would show we have practically no turn over, but it is rising. However, even if there were no recruitment problem at all, getting more people involved is always better because it means more contributions. And contributions (useful ones) are the lifeblood that moves the kernel forwards. > On a similar note, do we have any real data on the question of whether > those who are volunteering the patches which raise so much ire would > _ever_ become productive members of the team, even if we were to nurture > them properly? I don't think so. But that's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying we need to make the process of encouraging useful contributors more streamlined (as in less aggro on the mailing list). If that involves cutting out the less useful ones earlier, so be it. If we can come up with a better conversion process, that's great too. I want to start the discussion, not necessarily prescribe the solution. James