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(p200300d82f3f4b00ee138c225cc5d169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:d8:2f3f:4b00:ee13:8c22:5cc5:d169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-475dd01c07fsm74064275e9.2.2025.10.27.09.24.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Oct 2025 09:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <14030818-52e7-41eb-8ad7-602f3476d448@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 17:24:57 +0100 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 06/13] mm: introduce generic lazy_mmu helpers To: Kevin Brodsky , linux-mm@kvack.org Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alexander Gordeev , Andreas Larsson , Andrew Morton , Boris Ostrovsky , Borislav Petkov , Catalin Marinas , Christophe Leroy , Dave Hansen , "David S. Miller" , "H. Peter Anvin" , Ingo Molnar , Jann Horn , Juergen Gross , "Liam R. Howlett" , Lorenzo Stoakes , Madhavan Srinivasan , Michael Ellerman , Michal Hocko , Mike Rapoport , Nicholas Piggin , Peter Zijlstra , Ryan Roberts , Suren Baghdasaryan , Thomas Gleixner , Vlastimil Babka , Will Deacon , Yeoreum Yun , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, x86@kernel.org References: <20251015082727.2395128-1-kevin.brodsky@arm.com> <20251015082727.2395128-7-kevin.brodsky@arm.com> <73b274b7-f419-4e2e-8620-d557bac30dc2@redhat.com> <390e41ae-4b66-40c1-935f-7a1794ba0b71@arm.com> <28bf77c0-3aa9-4c41-aa2b-368321355dbb@arm.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZoEEwEIAEQCGwMCF4ACGQEFCwkIBwICIgIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3AP+DWgUCaJzangUJJlgIpAAKCRBN 3hD3AP+DWhAxD/9wcL0A+2rtaAmutaKTfxhTP0b4AAp1r/eLxjrbfbCCmh4pqzBhmSX/4z11 opn2KqcOsueRF1t2ENLOWzQu3Roiny2HOU7DajqB4dm1BVMaXQya5ae2ghzlJN9SIoopTWlR 0Af3hPj5E2PYvQhlcqeoehKlBo9rROJv/rjmr2x0yOM8qeTroH/ZzNlCtJ56AsE6Tvl+r7cW 3x7/Jq5WvWeudKrhFh7/yQ7eRvHCjd9bBrZTlgAfiHmX9AnCCPRPpNGNedV9Yty2Jnxhfmbv Pw37LA/jef8zlCDyUh2KCU1xVEOWqg15o1RtTyGV1nXV2O/mfuQJud5vIgzBvHhypc3p6VZJ lEf8YmT+Ol5P7SfCs5/uGdWUYQEMqOlg6w9R4Pe8d+mk8KGvfE9/zTwGg0nRgKqlQXrWRERv cuEwQbridlPAoQHrFWtwpgYMXx2TaZ3sihcIPo9uU5eBs0rf4mOERY75SK+Ekayv2ucTfjxr Kf014py2aoRJHuvy85ee/zIyLmve5hngZTTe3Wg3TInT9UTFzTPhItam6dZ1xqdTGHZYGU0O otRHcwLGt470grdiob6PfVTXoHlBvkWRadMhSuG4RORCDpq89vu5QralFNIf3EysNohoFy2A LYg2/D53xbU/aa4DDzBb5b1Rkg/udO1gZocVQWrDh6I2K3+cCs7BTQRVy5+RARAA59fefSDR 9nMGCb9LbMX+TFAoIQo/wgP5XPyzLYakO+94GrgfZjfhdaxPXMsl2+o8jhp/hlIzG56taNdt VZtPp3ih1AgbR8rHgXw1xwOpuAd5lE1qNd54ndHuADO9a9A0vPimIes78Hi1/yy+ZEEvRkHk /kDa6F3AtTc1m4rbbOk2fiKzzsE9YXweFjQvl9p+AMw6qd/iC4lUk9g0+FQXNdRs+o4o6Qvy iOQJfGQ4UcBuOy1IrkJrd8qq5jet1fcM2j4QvsW8CLDWZS1L7kZ5gT5EycMKxUWb8LuRjxzZ 3QY1aQH2kkzn6acigU3HLtgFyV1gBNV44ehjgvJpRY2cC8VhanTx0dZ9mj1YKIky5N+C0f21 zvntBqcxV0+3p8MrxRRcgEtDZNav+xAoT3G0W4SahAaUTWXpsZoOecwtxi74CyneQNPTDjNg azHmvpdBVEfj7k3p4dmJp5i0U66Onmf6mMFpArvBRSMOKU9DlAzMi4IvhiNWjKVaIE2Se9BY FdKVAJaZq85P2y20ZBd08ILnKcj7XKZkLU5FkoA0udEBvQ0f9QLNyyy3DZMCQWcwRuj1m73D sq8DEFBdZ5eEkj1dCyx+t/ga6x2rHyc8Sl86oK1tvAkwBNsfKou3v+jP/l14a7DGBvrmlYjO 59o3t6inu6H7pt7OL6u6BQj7DoMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBBvZyq1zXEw6Rg38yk3e EPcA/4NaBQJonNqrBQkmWAihAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NaKtMQALAJ8PzprBEXbXcEXwDKQu+P/vts IfUb1UNMfMV76BicGa5NCZnJNQASDP/+bFg6O3gx5NbhHHPeaWz/VxlOmYHokHodOvtL0WCC 8A5PEP8tOk6029Z+J+xUcMrJClNVFpzVvOpb1lCbhjwAV465Hy+NUSbbUiRxdzNQtLtgZzOV Zw7jxUCs4UUZLQTCuBpFgb15bBxYZ/BL9MbzxPxvfUQIPbnzQMcqtpUs21CMK2PdfCh5c4gS sDci6D5/ZIBw94UQWmGpM/O1ilGXde2ZzzGYl64glmccD8e87OnEgKnH3FbnJnT4iJchtSvx yJNi1+t0+qDti4m88+/9IuPqCKb6Stl+s2dnLtJNrjXBGJtsQG/sRpqsJz5x1/2nPJSRMsx9 5YfqbdrJSOFXDzZ8/r82HgQEtUvlSXNaXCa95ez0UkOG7+bDm2b3s0XahBQeLVCH0mw3RAQg r7xDAYKIrAwfHHmMTnBQDPJwVqxJjVNr7yBic4yfzVWGCGNE4DnOW0vcIeoyhy9vnIa3w1uZ 3iyY2Nsd7JxfKu1PRhCGwXzRw5TlfEsoRI7V9A8isUCoqE2Dzh3FvYHVeX4Us+bRL/oqareJ CIFqgYMyvHj7Q06kTKmauOe4Nf0l0qEkIuIzfoLJ3qr5UyXc2hLtWyT9Ir+lYlX9efqh7mOY qIws/H2t In-Reply-To: <28bf77c0-3aa9-4c41-aa2b-368321355dbb@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 24.10.25 16:32, Kevin Brodsky wrote: > On 24/10/2025 15:27, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 24.10.25 14:13, Kevin Brodsky wrote: >>> On 23/10/2025 21:52, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>> On 15.10.25 10:27, Kevin Brodsky wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>> * madvise_*_pte_range() call arch_leave() in multiple paths, some >>>>>     followed by an immediate exit/rescheduling and some followed by a >>>>>     conditional exit. These functions assume that they are called >>>>>     with lazy MMU disabled and we cannot simply use pause()/resume() >>>>>     to address that. This patch leaves the situation unchanged by >>>>>     calling enable()/disable() in all cases. >>>> >>>> I'm confused, the function simply does >>>> >>>> (a) enables lazy mmu >>>> (b) does something on the page table >>>> (c) disables lazy mmu >>>> (d) does something expensive (split folio -> take sleepable locks, >>>>      flushes tlb) >>>> (e) go to (a) >>> >>> That step is conditional: we exit right away if pte_offset_map_lock() >>> fails. The fundamental issue is that pause() must always be matched with >>> resume(), but as those functions look today there is no situation where >>> a pause() would always be matched with a resume(). >> >> We have matches enable/disable, so my question is rather "why" you are >> even thinking about using pause/resume? >> >> What would be the benefit of that? If there is no benefit then just >> drop this from the patch description as it's more confusing than just >> ... doing what the existing code does :) > > Ah sorry I misunderstood, I guess you originally meant: why would we use > pause()/resume()? > > The issue is the one I mentioned in the commit message: using > enable()/disable(), we assume that the functions are called with lazy > MMU mode is disabled. Consider: > >   lazy_mmu_mode_enable() >   madvise_cold_or_pageout_pte_range(): >     lazy_mmu_mode_enable() >     ... >     if (need_resched()) { >       lazy_mmu_mode_disable() >       cond_resched() // lazy MMU still enabled >     } > > This will explode on architectures that do not allow sleeping while in > lazy MMU mode. I'm not saying this is an actual problem - I don't see > why those functions would be called with lazy MMU mode enabled. But it > does go against the notion that nesting works everywhere. I would tackle it from a different direction: if code calls with lazy MMU enabled into random other code that might sleep, that caller would be wrong. It's not about changing functions like this to use pause/resume. Maybe the rule is simple: if you enable the lazy MMU, don't call any functions that might sleep. Maybe we could support that later by handling it before/after sleeping, if ever required? Or am I missing something regarding your point on pause()/resume()? -- Cheers David / dhildenb