From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E470C32789 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 04:46:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E978A20827 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 04:46:50 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="VBr/7Xxg" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org E978A20827 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=whitewaterfoundry.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728888AbeKHOUZ (ORCPT ); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 09:20:25 -0500 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:56271 "EHLO out5-smtp.messagingengine.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726145AbeKHOUZ (ORCPT ); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 09:20:25 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 442 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 09:20:24 EST Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C27A21F21 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 23:39:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from web4 ([10.202.2.214]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:39:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=qUx6A4 wm1jEZMm8UUaGTp02dAsUFOz8avM/S5cAAd9c=; b=VBr/7XxgS55Zay0RjD1mCo hmYGtHswT4Flu7kSNfCQS9v0Gb9NzpsyfcaGXQ0KjG9/Gg4/SSLle5fK5PWeIzbp dhfzlxMQixrFubPT15n9KNHa4Z5MUMC3HiFrvEduGFZqi9h3O1TWWlz+8TQlHw3T zU593U8sNN+4uzRydZIOzw12MaO62aaaHWLbUdeuMqXXUgXrvsTHJZq30q7GLOA2 55Hlw/s4l5aQMMx+G7CWIPMiv6cHhTkHtaegESQuXjNfuNo3yncfMifgKZqj+hTM xB3YBdJBoAEO0Kd+rVFVFA4UDfL0+vaQxLZ1UoP/YoXxR2YsT2sjPERdzSBSmVEw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 0B052BA7C4; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 23:39:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1541651966.672153.1569542472.2805F52F@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Hayden Barnes To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-c0552f07 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 20:39:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [QUESTION] Microsoft, WSL, and the Linux trademark Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Mr. Caputo, Please allow me to address some of the concerns you raised.=20 The Linux trademark is owned by Linus Torvalds and administered by the Linu= x Foundation through the Linux Mark Institute: https://www.linuxmark.org. T= he Linux trademark can be used by third parties subject to a Sublicense Agr= eement: https://www.linuxmark.org/programs/legal/trademark/sublicense-agree= ment. The terms of the Sublicense Agreement permit the use of the Linux tra= demark for derivative goods and services that deploy, document, facilitate = the use of, or enhance Linux=C2=AD-based goods. WLinux does contain a bootable Linux kernel in a base image. The criticism= that 'WSL is not Linux' is because the kernel is not executed when the bas= e image is installed and run from within the WSL layer on Windows 10. But W= Linux can be used to patch and build the Linux kernel from sources to insta= ll on other devices, assist in deploying and configuring Linux on other dev= ices, and can cross-compile software using standard Linux libraries, all wh= en running on WSL. For more about how WSL works for those unfamiliar: https= ://github.com/sirredbeard/Awesome-WSL#overview. WLinux unquestionably conta= ins derivations of the Linux kernel, relies on the WSL re-implementation of= Linux kernel syscalls, and facilitates the use of and enhances Linux-based= goods, all within the terms of the Linux Sublicense Agreement. We obtained a valid Sublicense Agreement for the use of the Linux trademark= from the Linux Foundation before launching WLinux. All of our intellectual= property compliance disclosures are here: https://github.com/WhitewaterFou= ndry/WLinux/blob/master/LICENSE.md Users who purchase WLinux from the Microsoft Store are supporting the Linux= ecosystem and free software generally. Everyone working on WLinux are Wind= ows and Linux users who are committed to making the Linux software ecosyste= m accessible to as many people as possible regardless of what device or ope= rating system they are on. WLinux and WSL generally opens up new possibilit= ies for bringing people to the Linux ecosystem, cross-platform development,= and expanding access to free software and free software development tools.= =20 WLinux builds in a number of value-added enhancements and features, we prov= ide end user support, and work with various developer communities and other= open source companies to try to make it easy to get into the Linux ecosyst= em from Windows 10. We make it easy to get up and running with Go, Ruby, o= ther dev toolchains, soon Docker, install various editors, configure predic= tive text input for non-Latin input, and implement a handful of other tweak= s to defaults. I personally do not believe a frontend dev stepping into Lin= ux should have to know how to partition and dual-boot a system, or even hav= e to learn Docker, to get started using node.js and trying different packag= es off npm. They will get to that. Many WLinux users are going to end up working on traditional server Linux e= ventually, if they don't already, as many of our users seem to work in hybr= id environments as it is. I imagine a few will end up trying and then switc= hing to desktop Linux, again if they don't use it already. But desktop Linu= x is just one small part of Linux, WLinux is not here to replace it, and WS= L is not capable of doing so in it's current limitations. Users are not bei= ng 'tricked'. Free upstream distros from Canonical, Debian, SuSE, and Kali = are available where you can implement our tweaks and custom packages manual= ly. Of the many copies we have sold we have only had two refund requests wh= ich we have promptly honored. Users always have the option of building WLin= ux from source using instructions we provide. WLinux is also heavily discou= nted or free in many less developed countries. We turn the funds WLinux earns around to hire open source developers, spons= or bug and feature bounties, donate to upstream projects, and cover overhea= d. We are profitable and expect to pay out over $2,000 USD in bounties this= month alone after being on the store for just six weeks. We are focused on= building a sustainable commercial open source project that can direct our = own development resources where we see fit to improve the Linux experience = on WSL for us, the users of Linux on WSL. Microsoft has had absolutely zero= input into how we have evolved WLinux besides open source code of theirs w= e have used. Hayden Barnes Whitewater Foundry, Ltd. Co. hayden@whitewaterfoundry.com https://www.whitewaterfoundry.com https://twitter.com/WLinuxApp https://github.com/sirredbeard https://github.com/WhitewaterFoundry/WLinux > In reading the news today, I stumbled across an article talking about a $= 20 "linux-based distro" app for Windows 10. > This is just a bundled userspace for WSL, there is no actual Linux in thi= s thing, yet the trademarked Linux name is used throughout. > Did Microsoft license the trademark or something? Did I miss a memo? Doe= s their joining the Linux Foundation as a Platinum member two years ago inc= lude such use of the trademark?=20 > I'm confused by what seems to be total silence about what _appears_ to be= an obvious large-scale trademark abuse in everything WSL-related. > Could somebody informed please shed some light on this? > The situation strikes me as harmful to the kernel as the majority of folk= s being introduced to "Linux" this way will be tricked into thinking they'r= e using/supporting Linux. > Has the Linux Foundation deliberately turned a blind eye to this trademar= k abuse because MS is throwing money at them or is it a formal licensing si= tuation? Do we, the community, even have any right to know what's going on?