From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91462C32789 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:11:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F0B20817 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:11:50 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="N5UCVEdf" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 46F0B20817 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=whitewaterfoundry.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729059AbeKHOp2 (ORCPT ); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 09:45:28 -0500 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:50393 "EHLO out5-smtp.messagingengine.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726145AbeKHOp2 (ORCPT ); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 09:45:28 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1AA21F49 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 00:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from web4 ([10.202.2.214]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Nov 2018 00:11:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=tfDMUC 2ykUsXRQ+42/y5Ab9luo5eOkcge3dGsDt+cN4=; b=N5UCVEdf+RnMcNFzfO4gkB KFLW9M3WzMMdZzqu2leou1c+hvreT92b1ZoJq2X6vLknb9RvrKSMlgoZVE11abdX Ke2dgk6jeETDI63DO9cKKQmupkzPKzCGKSinG5IZ3vebjUhpSFZe+A1jeb0gQU/E u4yZiLqPH1DavsvdS/B/cfS4d2Yq7lktFDfBeREI6ad3bSlGIsHKe/NOPYUheAMT jbBBGqszGxTPo3ttQms63pZbR2daYJUaxe9RmJpOclaoewc96r+aJsPf22OdkN9q dOM8brt1NUXTxYEoadKLTcpKdZox8ighSO+WAhDse+CcKCLgcjKWXUBf0O7czAIQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8D979BA7C4; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 00:11:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1541653907.680493.1569636320.38B54221@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Hayden Barnes To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-c0552f07 Subject: Re: [QUESTION] Microsoft, WSL, and the Linux trademark (Edited For Readability) Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 21:11:47 -0800 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Mr. Caputo, > In reading the news today, I stumbled across an article talking about a $= 20=20 > "linux-based distro" app for Windows 10. Hello. That was my idea. Please allow me to address some of the concerns yo= u raised.=20 > This is just a bundled userspace for WSL, there is no actual Linux in thi= s thing,=20 > yet the trademarked Linux name is used throughout. > Did Microsoft license the trademark or something? Did I miss a memo? > Does their joining the Linux Foundation as a Platinum member two years ag= o=20 > include such use of the trademark?=20 > I'm confused by what seems to be total silence about what _appears_ to be= an=20 > obvious large-scale trademark abuse in everything WSL-related. > Could somebody informed please shed some light on this? The Linux trademark is owned by Linus Torvalds and administered by the Linu= x Foundation=20 through the Linux Mark Institute: https://www.linuxmark.org. The Linux trad= emark can be=20 used by third parties subject to a Sublicense Agreement:=20 https://www.linuxmark.org/programs/legal/trademark/sublicense-agreement.=20 The terms of the Sublicense Agreement permit the use of the Linux trademark= for derivative=20 goods and services that deploy, document, facilitate the use of, or enhance= Linux=C2=AD-based goods. WLinux does contain a bootable Linux kernel in a base image. The criticism= that 'WSL is=20 not Linux' is because the kernel is not executed when the base image is ins= talled and run=20 from within the WSL layer on Windows 10. But WLinux can be used to patch an= d build the=20 Linux kernel from sources to install on other devices, assist in deploying = and configuring=20 Linux on other devices, and can cross-compile software using standard Linux= libraries,=20 all when running on WSL. For more about how WSL works for those unfamiliar:= =20 https://github.com/sirredbeard/Awesome-WSL#overview. WLinux unquestionably = contains=20 derivations of the Linux kernel, relies on the WSL re-implementation of Lin= ux kernel syscalls,=20 and facilitates the use of and enhances Linux-based goods, all within the t= erms of the=20 Linux Sublicense Agreement. We obtained a valid Sublicense Agreement for the use of the Linux trademark= for WLinux=20 from the Linux Foundation before launching WLinux. All of our intellectual = property=20 compliance disclosures are here:=20 https://github.com/WhitewaterFoundry/WLinux/blob/master/LICENSE.md > The situation strikes me as harmful to the kernel as the majority of folk= s being=20 introduced to "Linux" this way will be tricked into thinking they're using/= supporting Linux. Users who purchase WLinux from the Microsoft Store are supporting the Linux= ecosystem=20 and free software generally. Everyone working on WLinux are Windows and Lin= ux users who are committed to making the Linux software ecosystem accessible to as m= any people=20 as possible regardless of what device or operating system they are on. WLin= ux and WSL=20 generally opens up new possibilities for bringing people to the Linux ecosy= stem,=20 cross-platform development, and expanding access to free software and free = software=20 development tools.=20 WLinux builds in a number of value-added enhancements and features, we prov= ide=20 end user support, and work with various developer communities and other ope= n source=20 companies to try to make it easy to get into the Linux ecosystem from Windo= ws 10. We=20 make it easy to get up and running with Go, Ruby, other dev toolchains, soo= n Docker, install=20 various editors, configure predictive text input for non-Latin input, and i= mplement a handful=20 of other tweaks to defaults. I personally do not believe a frontend dev ste= pping into Linux=20 should have to know how to partition and dual-boot a system, or even have t= o learn Docker,=20 to get started using node.js and trying different packages off npm. They wi= ll get to that. Many WLinux users are going to end up working on traditional server Linux e= ventually,=20 if they don't already, as many of our users seem to work in hybrid environm= ents as it is.=20 I imagine a few will end up trying and then switching to desktop Linux, aga= in if they don't=20 use it already. But desktop Linux is just one small part of Linux, WLinux i= s not here to=20 replace it, and WSL is not capable of doing so in it's current limitations.= Users are not being 'tricked'. Free upstream distros from Canonical, Debian, SuSE, and Kali ar= e available where=20 you can implement our tweaks and custom packages manually. Of the many copi= es we have sold we have only had two refund requests which we have promptly honored. = Users always=20 have the option of building WLinux from source using instructions we provid= e. WLinux is also=20 heavily discounted or free in many less developed countries. We turn the funds WLinux earns around to hire open source developers, spons= or bug and=20 feature bounties, donate to upstream projects, and cover overhead. We are p= rofitable and=20 expect to pay out over $2,000 USD in bounties this month alone after being = on the store for just six weeks. We are focused on building a sustainable commercial open s= ource project=20 that can direct our own development resources where we see fit to improve t= he Linux=20 experience on WSL for us, the users of Linux on WSL. Microsoft has had abso= lutely zero=20 input into how we have evolved WLinux besides open source code of theirs we= have used. Hayden Barnes Whitewater Foundry, Ltd. Co. hayden@whitewaterfoundry.com https://www.whitewaterfoundry.com https://twitter.com/WLinuxApp https://github.com/sirredbeard https://github.com/WhitewaterFoundry/WLinux