mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>
To: paulmck@linux.ibm.com, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: LKMM Maintainers -- Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>,
	Andrea Parri <andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Daniel Lustig <dlustig@nvidia.com>,
	Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
	Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Documentation: atomic_t.txt: Explain ordering provided by smp_mb__{before,after}_atomic()
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 10:26:15 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1555719429.t9n8gkf70y.astroid@bobo.none> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190419182620.GF14111@linux.ibm.com>

Paul E. McKenney's on April 20, 2019 4:26 am:
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 08:00:17PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 01:21:45PM -0400, Alan Stern wrote:
>> > Index: usb-devel/Documentation/atomic_t.txt
>> > ===================================================================
>> > --- usb-devel.orig/Documentation/atomic_t.txt
>> > +++ usb-devel/Documentation/atomic_t.txt
>> > @@ -171,7 +171,10 @@ The barriers:
>> >    smp_mb__{before,after}_atomic()
>> >  
>> >  only apply to the RMW ops and can be used to augment/upgrade the ordering
>> > -inherent to the used atomic op. These barriers provide a full smp_mb().
>> > +inherent to the used atomic op. Unlike normal smp_mb() barriers, they order
>> > +only the RMW op itself against the instructions preceding the
>> > +smp_mb__before_atomic() or following the smp_mb__after_atomic(); they do
>> > +not order instructions on the other side of the RMW op at all.
>> 
>> Now it is I who is confused; what?
>> 
>> 	x = 1;
>> 	smp_mb__before_atomic();
>> 	atomic_add(1, &a);
>> 	y = 1;
>> 
>> the stores to both x and y will be ordered as if an smp_mb() where
>> there. There is no order between a and y otoh.
> 
> Let's look at x86.  And a slightly different example:
> 
> 	x = 1;
> 	smp_mb__before_atomic();
> 	atomic_add(1, &a);
> 	r1 = y;
> 
> The atomic_add() asm does not have the "memory" constraint, which is
> completely legitimate because atomic_add() does not return a value,
> and thus guarantees no ordering.  The compiler is therefore within
> its rights to transform the code into the following:
> 
> 	x = 1;
> 	smp_mb__before_atomic();
> 	r1 = y;
> 	atomic_add(1, &a);
> 
> But x86's smp_mb__before_atomic() is just a compiler barrier, and
> x86 is further allowed to reorder prior stores with later loads.
> The CPU can therefore execute this code as follows:
> 
> 	r1 = y;
> 	x = 1;
> 	smp_mb__before_atomic();
> 	atomic_add(1, &a);
> 
> So in general, the ordering is guaranteed only to the atomic itself,
> not to accesses on the other side of the atomic.

That's interesting. I don't think that's what all our code expects.
I had the same idea as Peter.

IIRC the primitive was originally introduced exactly so x86 would not
need to have the unnecessary hardware barrier with sequences like

  smp_mb();
  ...
  atomic_inc(&v);

The "new" semantics are a bit subtle. One option might be just to
replace it entirely with atomic_xxx_mb() ?

Thanks,
Nick


  reply	other threads:[~2019-04-20  0:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-04-19 17:21 Alan Stern
2019-04-19 17:54 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-19 18:00 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-19 18:26   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-20  0:26     ` Nicholas Piggin [this message]
2019-04-20  8:54       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-23 12:17         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-23 13:21           ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-23 13:26             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-23 20:16               ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-23 20:28                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-24  8:29                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-24  8:44                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-23 12:32         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-23 13:30           ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-23 13:40             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-04-23 20:19               ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-27  8:17             ` Andrea Parri
2019-04-27  8:36               ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-04-29  9:24             ` Johan Hovold
2019-04-29 14:49               ` Paul E. McKenney

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=1555719429.t9n8gkf70y.astroid@bobo.none \
    --to=npiggin@gmail.com \
    --cc=akiyks@gmail.com \
    --cc=andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com \
    --cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
    --cc=dhowells@redhat.com \
    --cc=dlustig@nvidia.com \
    --cc=j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=luc.maranget@inria.fr \
    --cc=paulmck@linux.ibm.com \
    --cc=peterz@infradead.org \
    --cc=stern@rowland.harvard.edu \
    --cc=will.deacon@arm.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®