From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl [195.121.94.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F0684A2E2C for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2026 13:47:17 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1783000039; cv=none; b=CxfJOCn2EVz5TbPrNgED/KW3NzMhdX0S3gBpIJUdLmPFxmJGVzZvVk63GBfFj28pqJp2Ps2HtA2j7mEnhPGSoFRS9uP8z6i7D+oeMJlpcv5SULDXGXu7xwg9DRebq2EyzUI8N+pKUtTIEnrfDCmpcuYlUMcIktvxvhLh5Sem1vY= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1783000039; c=relaxed/simple; bh=9vCzdsrDjRnNDopO8XrwVD6Ux3vuXiwvJ26XO8w0Q1M=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=hAU+1dwJBnkJYffSEzDXYoGYm6q8MpSlnzwQcoIffpv3A13YxpayPhv/ebr7Z0QKeSwqZSBO7TpWg10PcdApcvkDj08kO3Ggj4EhtTgXYAdjdvW0xOg/IN5Pu1er5wMg87CStTCA44Pwc8vHxbXhomlXXMmnPuJR1zttI3yibyA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b=HsIFnrwJ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b="HsIFnrwJ" X-KPN-MessageId: 85860b35-761c-11f1-a59f-005056994fde Received: from mta.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.161.190]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 85860b35-761c-11f1-a59f-005056994fde; Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.128.135.189]) by mta.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTP id 85850560-761c-11f1-b2fb-0050569977a2; Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:47:09 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=xs4all01; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date; bh=iVIw1KSztBG5XbiiPT3rFIkRnppxNekEQmGA7UFDMX4=; b=HsIFnrwJ/QtllTx04+C9pkME/mhMGyDYSnYCI6k9g4ir0LDqT0iXnshqhHr6bbPtJ4X1an8qB2Z3Q +tJO5Z6VrnmTsYQAUELtRUSb2yGVRXz00Ju503BM1hpkedxD0PszVb/vGL41lHsZiCVyBucTFwQq8+ 3Az1R1v7E8nOpzJlFrLOmRxFRZ7hF39Iy1sz6alRCahu9xPx5+D+7eorwXsk9iTnT0ATzB3ndMsg4o pnNIyBUtJidBa87kv46l1JqLpoooCJRU/qJOANVrJ4xTnehcgx8MDuzCo4p7cXMOFPaN2zQqRIkr69 3CJts3RqDMsYYliIsWyJDxhUoYspYhw== X-KPN-MID: 33|gf0ONW+fymxcc6RJTTh39Z9+mMZxZYekkzX2oT74gM5hm4d37WfR+V88EtE4PbK Dj9pW/85t2SK8E94D/oj2vgfR3oW7yufkjw7/xwrc6iU= X-CMASSUN: 33|xMJKv1fEE5T0AEgQ6BRiXBm1j8bPEc5HOs4lGff+5Ska6Sa85ejpf05EU1Og6XZ pzhDgTEVa8LIgHCyvifqQyA== X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes Received: from cpxoxapps-mh03 (cpxoxapps-mh03.personalcloud.so.kpn.org [10.128.135.209]) by mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 857a3792-761c-11f1-8edb-00505699eff2; Thu, 02 Jul 2026 15:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2026 15:47:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Jori Koolstra To: Lorenzo Stoakes , Laurent Pinchart Cc: Brian Foster , "Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)" , Christian Brauner , Linus Torvalds , Jonathan Corbet , Jens Axboe , David Hildenbrand , Jeff Layton , workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <1699303859.3782023.1783000029571@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> In-Reply-To: References: <20260701-work-coding-assistants-v1-1-a20a94d1d606@kernel.org> <20260702093844.GA3491311@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <20260702130740.GB3534761@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] coding-assistants: simplify attribution Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > Op 02-07-2026 15:37 CEST schreef Lorenzo Stoakes : > > > On Thu, Jul 02, 2026 at 04:07:40PM +0300, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 02, 2026 at 01:18:06PM +0100, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > But then it becomes an arms race. People will get AI to try to defeat AI > > > detection. So I'm not sure it's a safe road to go down. > > > > That would be my concern too. > > > > At this stage, I think it's better to make sure people know our > > expectations, and expect that the vast majority will understand it's a > > trust-based system where being caught willingly breaching trust will > > have a very high cost. Or have we reached a point where that doesn't > > work any more ? > > Unfortunately there's a lot of people who have bad motives or feel there's > prestige in kernel commits and are willing to cheat their way to it, or are > pressured by their workplace, or etc. etc. > > So I think this is far too idealistic. I've seen too much undisclosed AI being > submitted and those people stridently denying they used it when it's brought up. > > So I think tags are really useful to push back against those who are in good > faith. > > And for those who submit it dishonestly, I personally believe _reasonable_ and > _strong_ evidence to believe it's generated should be enough to reject. > > But there's not universal agreement on that, unfortunately, which makes it > politically difficult. > > I think honestly the only solution long-term will not even be to reject like > this but rather we'll have to basically restrict newcomers to a very narrow band > of submissions and have them build trust before they can send more. > It's total insanity to expect from maintainers to deal with huge, deep, changes in core subsystems by total unknown people, like you've had to deal with. What is the chance you happen to refuse a commit by an isolated genius that just happen to be able to do deep work without any kind of work leading up to that. And even then, if they are genuinely a genius, it very likely won't smell like AI slop. > Which really, really sucks but I don't see how we can keep the kernel alive any > other way when the slop really ramps up. > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Laurent Pinchart > > Thanks, Lorenzo