From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl [195.121.94.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA7F04D2EC4 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 13:08:50 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791983332; cv=none; b=e4tcmEeRij6n0+SDYE7ian0jdzx8fOjIi8GERXgTyBtaIi61SzJJHF5qu4xamZa14iMVd4EWXjF/1wWTVP9KDk3SEtbuLvGcL2ffRERFibEDENVL+mo//EFBJJsyoX81wp1yfvlBuSOz9OKaDQOsrfsYr0EEfYkO6MdTd7kYIfQ= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791983332; c=relaxed/simple; bh=zJyJwbqrIMCMA4hiRo6sDHUm2ZUNcy0WbKdZ2AnkuKA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mXvb2lS3rlA6LsPAFn5GsMa9xjAryWi0eB7COV3Q04DM/yK/Qwk/QQs0DFFA0V8T7ynvE5RPzJbmSBlP6MjeeARvbvZRvHbwdhMSVuzpFMalTZiISVOae0bezVe/docS8IVRqIMVuDJqnKHlfu0sX+6XbmSRvNqVQDYcxHYVCrI= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b=i7FInNFO; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b="i7FInNFO" X-KPN-MessageId: 60149d4e-c7d0-11f1-a5a4-005056994fde Received: from mta.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.161.189]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 60149d4e-c7d0-11f1-a5a4-005056994fde; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 15:08:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.128.135.189]) by mta.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTP id 60125701-c7d0-11f1-a0c8-0050569981f5; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 15:08:40 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=xs4all01; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date; bh=oR4mGO5dXvh7uKRKRY3Q/50+aTcyc5zgByMmdRWQX9Q=; b=i7FInNFO3Xb/ksxW4x8osITtPT4xSz04pTlwnYTx7E4hW9ztYG4GXo0yWPkII33k4rw4rwAtCseEG LuHgylaHq0usb47Ib/WrBBThh4ZfumoAByo5xMmMaUUhM5AG18TrbiPXc/9DVpX3QqlTOmjPhhmj+O LfLJ6Fjr1ppGXg6PguVYKrV/TvG8AQ5x8W4QA51S45ZkJHuAsNPPTqXYrU4jGbHZxtCvNvbhozrCcp OtcSfJ2FIwFWFlY4KNffHq4otolwWbzabvRGK9SK4bQscVT/E/44WjwNCsNaUxV+faHz5oHEeC6gxF HHkFmHCc+8BF4kJF/D/Cy1/cKnouO5Q== X-KPN-MID: 33|tlWIlI8UH/nPAUmArasZsw+htSSBd38ayYa+8PbDpIYyisi933DreQF95HlN+/K j++w9V9/D953sD/QQ6ZekmQ== X-CMASSUN: 33|8ilib81BGiC4Ogwbb2AYB7SCHM+Z9biBi7EbLayFamokYY6B9feuzD6Q667AspX h6S1+pwsvA643HRJXfC72Ig== X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes Received: from cpxoxapps-mh01 (cpxoxapps-mh01.personalcloud.so.kpn.org [10.128.135.207]) by mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 60076661-c7d0-11f1-8edd-00505699eff2; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 15:08:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2026 15:08:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Jori Koolstra To: Theodore Tso , "Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" , Laurent Pinchart , Linus Torvalds Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski , Sasha Levin , corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org, federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Justin Stitt , Carlos Maiolino , Jakub Kicinski , Brian Foster , Christoph Hellwig , David Disseldorp , Mark Brown , Jani Nikula , Jens Axboe , "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" , Vlastimil Babka , "Christian Brauner (Amutable)" Message-ID: <1759910011.895530.1791983320339@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> In-Reply-To: References: <20261009083137.3-1-sashal@kernel.org> <0914a106-bacf-4d95-854a-bfeefbff62a4@kernel.org> <20261013123132.GC4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <20261013131243.GM56180@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > Op 13-10-2026 23:23 EDT schreef Theodore Tso : > > > This isn't actually a new problem. In the pre-AI era, we would > sometimes get marginal patches, and there is always a question of > whether it is the maintainer's time to try to engage with a new > contributor who might turn into the next valued senior contributor and > reviewer --- or who might be resistant to education and/or who might > disappear very shortly. AI makes the problem worse in that there are > many more newcomers with new contributions, but it's really not a new > problem. This is aligned to the point that I was trying to make, and I believe you it is not a new problem: how do you identify these "next valued seniors"? What pipelines/processes does the kernel community have to identify and grow these people? Just showing up regularly on the list is becoming a less clear signal because of LLMs. Not because no useful contributions can come from them, but because a growing part of new contributors is of the drive-by variety. Jon recently outlined a case of someone submitting dozens of patches in a single day. Obviously this person is never going to be a core kernel developer, and the tool we have now (explicitly) is to ignore/deprioritize them. Zig took the approach to just disallow LLM contributions, Linux is explicitly not going down that road. This hopefully tackles the burn-out part of the equation, but it does not per se address the pipeline problem. I suggested maybe it could be addressed by simply seeing people at conferences (and I have a hard time understanding how one could grow into a senior without going to any ever). I imagine this more or less has always been the case anyway. It works the same way in academia, or really any field, if people don't know you, you likely won't get your paper published, savant or not. There was a time when kernel programming was fairly unapproachable, so that just the fact of submitting a patch was a signal of commitment or at least effort (and as you said, not even then always). That time is no more. Yes, Hardy would have missed Ramanujan now maybe. But we also have the kernel mentorship program, and the community can think about other ways as well. As a senior kernel programmer, do you have any suggestions for this? I would be really interested in your take, Best, Jori.