From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:31:10 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:30:59 -0500 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:14345 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:30:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:33:52 -0500 Message-Id: <200103262233.f2QMXqm21750@snark.thyrsus.com> From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: CML2 0.9.7 is available Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Release 0.9.7: Mon Mar 26 16:55:48 EST 2001 * Can now configure everything except the CONFIG_-less CRIS symbols. * Prefix-stripping for backward compatibility with, e.g. CONFIG_3C515. * Resolve all FIXMES, including Andre Hedrick's IDE vendor stuff. CML2 can now configure symbols with leading numerics, removing the last remaining CML1 compatibility problem. Once the CRIS-architecture symbols are brought into conformance with the CML1 spec, CML2 will be able to completely configure a stock kernel tree. All known gaps in the CML1 translation have been fixed. -- Eric S. Raymond The abortion rights and gun control debates are twin aspects of a deeper question --- does an individual ever have the right to make decisions that are literally life-or-death? And if not the individual, who does? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:32:08 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:31:58 -0400 Received: from krynn.axis.se ([193.13.178.10]:30101 "EHLO krynn.axis.se") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:31:54 -0400 Message-ID: <18a601c0bdf5$d7305500$0a070d0a@axis.se> From: "Johan Adolfsson" To: In-Reply-To: <200103262233.f2QMXqm21750@snark.thyrsus.com> Subject: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:28:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Would it be a good idea to have support for multiple Configure.help files in the config system? The main advantage would be that arch specific settings could have an arch specific help file as well. Anybody who knows: Would it be a easy to add support for this if this is considered a good idea? /Johan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:44:45 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:44:35 -0400 Received: from mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl ([130.161.34.250]:1042 "EHLO mailhst2.its.tudelft.nl") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:44:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:41:36 +0200 From: Erik Mouw To: Johan Adolfsson Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? Message-ID: <20010405214136.X18749@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> In-Reply-To: <200103262233.f2QMXqm21750@snark.thyrsus.com> <18a601c0bdf5$d7305500$0a070d0a@axis.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <18a601c0bdf5$d7305500$0a070d0a@axis.se>; from johan.adolfsson@axis.com on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 07:28:33PM +0200 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy! Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 07:28:33PM +0200, Johan Adolfsson wrote: > Would it be a good idea to have support for multiple Configure.help > files in the config system? > The main advantage would be that arch specific settings could > have an arch specific help file as well. I don't see why this would be an advantage. IMHO Documentation belongs in the Documentation tree and configuration documentation belongs in Configure.help. You almost never read that file yourself, only the various kernel configure tools read it, and tools don't have a problem with large files. It's better to have the documentation at a single point, not scattered around in the kernel tree. > Anybody who knows: Would it be a easy to add support for this if > this is considered a good idea? Shouldn't be too hard. Erik -- J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems, Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands Phone: +31-15-2783635 Fax: +31-15-2781843 Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:57:17 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:57:07 -0400 Received: from 13dyn139.delft.casema.net ([212.64.76.139]:37904 "EHLO abraracourcix.bitwizard.nl") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:56:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200104052156.XAA02219@cave.bitwizard.nl> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: <20010405214136.X18749@arthur.ubicom.tudelft.nl> from Erik Mouw at "Apr 5, 2001 09:41:36 pm" To: Erik Mouw Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:56:13 +0200 (MEST) CC: Johan Adolfsson , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org From: R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl (Rogier Wolff) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Erik Mouw wrote: > On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 07:28:33PM +0200, Johan Adolfsson wrote: > > Would it be a good idea to have support for multiple Configure.help > > files in the config system? > > The main advantage would be that arch specific settings could > > have an arch specific help file as well. > > I don't see why this would be an advantage. IMHO Documentation belongs > in the Documentation tree and configuration documentation belongs in > Configure.help. You almost never read that file yourself, only the > various kernel configure tools read it, and tools don't have a problem > with large files. It's better to have the documentation at a single > point, not scattered around in the kernel tree. Well, the configure help is now "scattered around": The configuration options are in the "configure.in" files, and hte docs for them are somewhere else, even if it's in one large file. I'm not sure if Larry's CML2 has the help for the options near the options or not, but that's how I'd like it to be if I were designing the thing from scratch. (a bit like emacs' functions: there too, you give the help text near the definition of a functions!) Roger. -- ** R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl ** http://www.BitWizard.nl/ ** +31-15-2137555 ** *-- BitWizard writes Linux device drivers for any device you may have! --* * There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. * There are also old, bald pilots. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:04:08 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:03:59 -0400 Received: from 13dyn139.delft.casema.net ([212.64.76.139]:39184 "EHLO abraracourcix.bitwizard.nl") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:03:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200104052203.AAA02246@cave.bitwizard.nl> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: <200104052156.XAA02219@cave.bitwizard.nl> from Rogier Wolff at "Apr 5, 2001 11:56:13 pm" To: Rogier Wolff Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:03:00 +0200 (MEST) CC: Erik Mouw , Johan Adolfsson , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org From: R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl (Rogier Wolff) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Rogier Wolff wrote: > I'm not sure if Larry's CML2 has the help for the options near the ^^^^^^ ehhhm. That's Eric. Sorry. Roger. -- ** R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl ** http://www.BitWizard.nl/ ** +31-15-2137555 ** *-- BitWizard writes Linux device drivers for any device you may have! --* * There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. * There are also old, bald pilots. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 01:39:07 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 01:38:58 -0400 Received: from krynn.axis.se ([193.13.178.10]:44202 "EHLO krynn.axis.se") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 01:38:45 -0400 From: johan.adolfsson@axis.com Message-ID: <003501c0be5c$224fd5e0$9db270d5@homeip.net> Reply-To: To: "Erik Mouw" , "Rogier Wolff" Cc: "Johan Adolfsson" , In-Reply-To: <200104052156.XAA02219@cave.bitwizard.nl> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:40:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org I went ahead and implemented the change last night anyway and I will submit the patches and see if it will be accepted or not. The idea is that it first check in arch/$ARCH/Configure.help and if the file or the help is not found there, check Documentation/Configure.help. I believe there is an advantage from a maintenance point of view. It least for our CRIS architecture, I don't think it's any benefit to "bloat" the Documentation/Configure.help with a lot of CONFIG_ETRAX entries for the various hardware inerfaces when the help and config can be kept locally. BTW: I added this to scripts/Configure and scripts/Menuconfig but I know to little tcl/tk to get it to work for the xconfig case. The variable $ARCH was not found and I don't know how to make it get it from the environment variables. /Johan ----- Original Message ----- From: Rogier Wolff To: Erik Mouw Cc: Johan Adolfsson ; Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? > Erik Mouw wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 07:28:33PM +0200, Johan Adolfsson wrote: > > > Would it be a good idea to have support for multiple Configure.help > > > files in the config system? > > > The main advantage would be that arch specific settings could > > > have an arch specific help file as well. > > > > I don't see why this would be an advantage. IMHO Documentation belongs > > in the Documentation tree and configuration documentation belongs in > > Configure.help. You almost never read that file yourself, only the > > various kernel configure tools read it, and tools don't have a problem > > with large files. It's better to have the documentation at a single > > point, not scattered around in the kernel tree. > > Well, the configure help is now "scattered around": The configuration > options are in the "configure.in" files, and hte docs for them are > somewhere else, even if it's in one large file. > > I'm not sure if Larry's CML2 has the help for the options near the > options or not, but that's how I'd like it to be if I were designing > the thing from scratch. (a bit like emacs' functions: there too, you > give the help text near the definition of a functions!) > > Roger. > > -- > ** R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl ** http://www.BitWizard.nl/ ** +31-15-2137555 ** > *-- BitWizard writes Linux device drivers for any device you may have! --* > * There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. > * There are also old, bald pilots. > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:00:04 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 02:59:54 -0400 Received: from frege-d-math-north-g-west.math.ethz.ch ([129.132.145.3]:6274 "EHLO frege.math.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 02:59:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACD68FF.637D8958@math.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:58:08 +0200 From: Giacomo Catenazzi Reply-To: cate@debian.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: johan.adolfsson@axis.com CC: Erik Mouw , Rogier Wolff , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org johan.adolfsson@axis.com wrote: > > I went ahead and implemented the change last night anyway and I > will submit the patches and see if it will be accepted or not. > The idea is that it first check in arch/$ARCH/Configure.help > and if the file or the help is not found there, > check Documentation/Configure.help. > > I believe there is an advantage from a maintenance point of view. > It least for our CRIS architecture, I don't think it's any benefit to > "bloat" the Documentation/Configure.help with a lot of > CONFIG_ETRAX entries for the various hardware inerfaces > when the help and config can be kept locally. > This was already discussed on kbuild list. It is better to have only 1 Configure.help. This help translation of the file and help busy developers. They should not rewrite texts in every Configure.help. If you should provide a special help on a specific ARCH you could modify the symbols: instead of : bool 'std IPC support' CONFIG_IPC you can do: : bool 'arch specific IPC help' CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH : define_bool CONFIG_IPC CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH ESR CML2 have the defualt path for Configure.help build in the rules files, but it can be overriden by command options to use an other Configure.help (the format do not change). It is also designed so that a distribution can include a translation of Configure.help. (But we don't expect to include translation in std linux kernel) > BTW: I added this to scripts/Configure and scripts/Menuconfig > but I know to little tcl/tk to get it to work for the xconfig case. > The variable $ARCH was not found and I don't know how to make > it get it from the environment variables. > $ARCH is set on the top of the main Makefile. You can copy the small shell script from here. giacomo > /Johan > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:20:48 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:20:39 -0400 Received: from mail.axisinc.com ([193.13.178.2]:51730 "EHLO roma.axis.se") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:20:30 -0400 From: johan.adolfsson@axis.com Message-ID: <018001c0be69$90dcb200$9db270d5@homeip.net> Reply-To: To: , Cc: "Erik Mouw" , "Rogier Wolff" , In-Reply-To: <3ACD68FF.637D8958@math.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:16:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Giacomo Catenazzi To: Cc: Erik Mouw ; Rogier Wolff ; Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? > johan.adolfsson@axis.com wrote: > > > > I went ahead and implemented the change last night anyway and I > > will submit the patches and see if it will be accepted or not. > > The idea is that it first check in arch/$ARCH/Configure.help > > and if the file or the help is not found there, > > check Documentation/Configure.help. > > > > I believe there is an advantage from a maintenance point of view. > > It least for our CRIS architecture, I don't think it's any benefit to > > "bloat" the Documentation/Configure.help with a lot of > > CONFIG_ETRAX entries for the various hardware inerfaces > > when the help and config can be kept locally. > > > > This was already discussed on kbuild list. > It is better to have only 1 Configure.help. This help > translation of the file and help busy developers. > They should not rewrite texts in every Configure.help. I can't see that 1 file makes it easier. The same help text is only present in one file, either arch/$ARCH/Configure.help or Documentation/Configure.help The help system first checks the file in arch/$ARCH and if the help is not present there it checks the one in Documentation/ > If you should provide a special help on a specific ARCH you > could modify the symbols: instead of > : bool 'std IPC support' CONFIG_IPC > you can do: > : bool 'arch specific IPC help' CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH > : define_bool CONFIG_IPC CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH Don't know if you missunderstood me or if I missunderstand you here. The typical use for the arch specific help file would only cover the arch specific CONFIG options (although it could "override" the general help text in Documentation/Configure.help with an arch specific one, but if you do that I guess you're doing something wrong) > ESR CML2 have the defualt path for Configure.help build in > the rules files, but it can be overriden by command options > to use an other Configure.help (the format do not change). I want to be able to use two help files. > It is also designed so that a distribution can include > a translation of Configure.help. (But we don't expect > to include translation in std linux kernel) > > > > BTW: I added this to scripts/Configure and scripts/Menuconfig > > but I know to little tcl/tk to get it to work for the xconfig case. > > The variable $ARCH was not found and I don't know how to make > > it get it from the environment variables. > > > > $ARCH is set on the top of the main Makefile. You can copy > the small shell script from here. I found the $env(ARCH) syntax by searching the net a little so now make xconfig works with 2 helpfiles as well. > giacomo > > > /Johan /Johan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:45:26 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:45:17 -0400 Received: from frege-d-math-north-g-west.math.ethz.ch ([129.132.145.3]:35463 "EHLO frege.math.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:45:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACD73E0.2B1DFF6F@math.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:44:32 +0200 From: Giacomo Catenazzi Reply-To: cate@debian.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: johan.adolfsson@axis.com CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: <3ACD68FF.637D8958@math.ethz.ch> <018001c0be69$90dcb200$9db270d5@homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org johan.adolfsson@axis.com wrote: > > > This was already discussed on kbuild list. > > It is better to have only 1 Configure.help. This help > > translation of the file and help busy developers. > > They should not rewrite texts in every Configure.help. > > I can't see that 1 file makes it easier. > The same help text is only present in one file, > either arch/$ARCH/Configure.help or > Documentation/Configure.help Ok, if you use both files. Better a single file because: - I18n support. (But not a big issue for us). - CML2 merges all arch configurations in one file (really in 4 file: rules, menu strings, ...) Thus because we merge also configuration, I think that it is better not to split the helps. - IIRC there is only few ARCH specific configuration, thus we don't reduce the size of che Configure.help Note that the arch/config.in have to much configuration item (but they repeat in (nearly) all arch/config.in files, thus you should count only the really arch specific item. I would prefer to have config.in and help file togheter. But in the discussion in kbuild list, it come that is is better to merge all configuration in one file and the strings in an other (and thus not to merge Configure.help to not heve a very huge file). What are the advanteget to split the Configure.help? > > The help system first checks the file in arch/$ARCH and if > the help is not present there it checks the one in Documentation/ > > > If you should provide a special help on a specific ARCH you > > could modify the symbols: instead of > > : bool 'std IPC support' CONFIG_IPC > > you can do: > > : bool 'arch specific IPC help' CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH > > : define_bool CONFIG_IPC CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH > > Don't know if you missunderstood me or if I missunderstand > you here. > The typical use for the arch specific help file would only cover > the arch specific CONFIG options (although it could "override" > the general help text in Documentation/Configure.help with > an arch specific one, but if you do that I guess you're doing > something wrong) I think I missunderstood you. But this was the big issue for splitting Configure.help. (Thus if an developer should use at arch specific help, he should use this method) > > > ESR CML2 have the defualt path for Configure.help build in > > the rules files, but it can be overriden by command options > > to use an other Configure.help (the format do not change). > > I want to be able to use two help files. I think it is not a big issue. In Makefile we can : cat Conf.help.1 Conf.help2 > .Conf.help giacomo From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:11:16 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:11:06 -0400 Received: from mail.axisinc.com ([193.13.178.2]:16658 "EHLO roma.axis.se") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:10:53 -0400 Message-ID: <19da01c0be78$f9106c90$0a070d0a@axis.se> From: "Johan Adolfsson" To: , Cc: In-Reply-To: <3ACD68FF.637D8958@math.ethz.ch> <018001c0be69$90dcb200$9db270d5@homeip.net> <3ACD73E0.2B1DFF6F@math.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:07:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Giacomo Catenazzi To: Cc: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 09:44 Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? > johan.adolfsson@axis.com wrote: > > > > > This was already discussed on kbuild list. > > > It is better to have only 1 Configure.help. This help > > > translation of the file and help busy developers. > > > They should not rewrite texts in every Configure.help. > > > > I can't see that 1 file makes it easier. > > The same help text is only present in one file, > > either arch/$ARCH/Configure.help or > > Documentation/Configure.help > > Ok, if you use both files. > > Better a single file because: > - I18n support. (But not a big issue for us). I must admit that I haven't got a clue what that is:-) > - CML2 merges all arch configurations in one file (really in 4 > file: > rules, menu strings, ...) > Thus because we merge also configuration, I think that it is > better not to split the helps. If this is solved by merging two files or if the config system really uses two files doesn't really matter to me. Merging files is probably a better approach if having non-centralised help files can be accepted. > - IIRC there is only few ARCH specific configuration, thus we > don't > reduce the size of che Configure.help > Note that the arch/config.in have to much configuration item > (but they repeat in (nearly) all arch/config.in files, thus > you > should count only the really arch specific item. Here are some results: $ wc arch/cris/Configure.help 621 4424 28373 arch/cris/Configure.help $ wc Documentation/Configure.help 17480 121037 773694 Documentation/Configure.help $ grep CONFIG arch/cris/Configure.help |wc 75 138 2337 $ grep CONFIG Documentation/Configure.help |wc 1486 1640 30135 it's not entiraly correct since the CONFIG_BLUETOOTH help is in the arch/cris directory and that should probably be in Documentation/ or in the OpenBT package and merged from there. The file also contains the # LocalWords: rows from the original Configure.help. But the ETRAX/CRIS config is 3-5% of the total config. Having the help close to the config sounds like a good idea from a maintenance point of view. > I would prefer to have config.in and help file togheter. But > in the > discussion in kbuild list, it come that is is better to merge > all configuration in one file and the strings in an other (and > thus > not to merge Configure.help to not heve a very huge file). > > > What are the advanteget to split the Configure.help? > > > > > The help system first checks the file in arch/$ARCH and if > > the help is not present there it checks the one in Documentation/ > > > > > > > If you should provide a special help on a specific ARCH you > > > could modify the symbols: instead of > > > : bool 'std IPC support' CONFIG_IPC > > > you can do: > > > : bool 'arch specific IPC help' CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH > > > : define_bool CONFIG_IPC CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH > > > > Don't know if you missunderstood me or if I missunderstand > > you here. > > The typical use for the arch specific help file would only cover > > the arch specific CONFIG options (although it could "override" > > the general help text in Documentation/Configure.help with > > an arch specific one, but if you do that I guess you're doing > > something wrong) > > I think I missunderstood you. But this was the big issue for > splitting Configure.help. (Thus if an developer should use > at arch specific help, he should use this method) > > > > > > ESR CML2 have the defualt path for Configure.help build in > > > the rules files, but it can be overriden by command options > > > to use an other Configure.help (the format do not change). > > > > I want to be able to use two help files. > > I think it is not a big issue. In Makefile we can > : cat Conf.help.1 Conf.help2 > .Conf.help Sounds better than dealing with two different help files in the config system. Is there an ETA when ESR CML2 will be in the official kernel? (I guess I should catch up on what it will provide instead of wasting peoples time...) Would adding support for merging help files in the current config system be accepted in the meanwhile? E.g. Configure, Menuconfig and header.tk is changed to use Documentation/Configure.help.generated and the top Makefile does cat $(HELPFILES) >Documentation/Configure.help.generated 2>/dev/null for oldconfig, config, menuconfig and xconfig targets? And HELPFILES is set to: HELPFILES = arch/$(ARCH)/Configure.help Documentation/Configure.help External patches that add functionality could easaly add HELPFILES += some new help files rows to get the help as well. > giacomo /Johan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:40:16 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:40:07 -0400 Received: from frege-d-math-north-g-west.math.ethz.ch ([129.132.145.3]:35494 "EHLO frege.math.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACD8ECC.F2518B90@math.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 11:39:24 +0200 From: Giacomo Catenazzi Reply-To: cate@debian.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johan Adolfsson CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: <3ACD68FF.637D8958@math.ethz.ch> <018001c0be69$90dcb200$9db270d5@homeip.net> <3ACD73E0.2B1DFF6F@math.ethz.ch> <19da01c0be78$f9106c90$0a070d0a@axis.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Johan Adolfsson wrote: > > > - IIRC there is only few ARCH specific configuration, thus we > > don't > > reduce the size of che Configure.help > > Note that the arch/config.in have to much configuration item > > (but they repeat in (nearly) all arch/config.in files, thus > > you > > should count only the really arch specific item. > > Here are some results: > $ wc arch/cris/Configure.help > 621 4424 28373 arch/cris/Configure.help > $ wc Documentation/Configure.help > 17480 121037 773694 Documentation/Configure.help > $ grep CONFIG arch/cris/Configure.help |wc > 75 138 2337 > $ grep CONFIG Documentation/Configure.help |wc > 1486 1640 30135 > > it's not entiraly correct since the CONFIG_BLUETOOTH help > is in the arch/cris directory and that should probably be in > Documentation/ or in the OpenBT package and merged from there. > The file also contains the # LocalWords: rows from the original > Configure.help. > > But the ETRAX/CRIS config is 3-5% of the total config. This seem too much. If all arch have a so big CONFIG space, I think that your idea can do some improvement. But: user don't see the difference. Do you think that developers would like your proposal? (If arch maintainers agree, you can try to publish your patch) > > Having the help close to the config sounds like a good idea > from a maintenance point of view. But in 2.5.x the config.in are centralized, thus also Configure.help sould be centralized. And in this case I think that a big file hurts nobody. > > > > ESR CML2 have the defualt path for Configure.help build in > > > > the rules files, but it can be overriden by command options > > > > to use an other Configure.help (the format do not change). > > > > > > I want to be able to use two help files. > > > > I think it is not a big issue. In Makefile we can > > : cat Conf.help.1 Conf.help2 > .Conf.help > > Sounds better than dealing with two different help files in the > config system. > Is there an ETA when ESR CML2 will be in the official kernel? > (I guess I should catch up on what it will provide instead of > wasting peoples time...) In 2.5.2 kernel. What We don't know is when 2.5.2 will be released! > > Would adding support for merging help files in the current config > system be accepted in the meanwhile? In 2.4: No. Distribution expect a stable interface. In 2.5 will be the new CML2. Again if arch maintainer agree with your proposal, you can change the CML2. Not so difficult (and you change only in one place for all interfaces (olconfig/config/menuconfig/xconfig) > E.g. Configure, Menuconfig and header.tk is changed to use > Documentation/Configure.help.generated > and the top Makefile does > cat $(HELPFILES) >Documentation/Configure.help.generated 2>/dev/null > for oldconfig, config, menuconfig and xconfig targets? > And HELPFILES is set to: > HELPFILES = arch/$(ARCH)/Configure.help Documentation/Configure.help > > External patches that add functionality could easaly add > HELPFILES += some new help files > rows to get the help as well. This change is too big for 2.4 kernel. giacomo From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:37:01 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:36:50 -0400 Received: from sunrise.pg.gda.pl ([153.19.40.230]:2482 "EHLO sunrise.pg.gda.pl") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:36:35 -0400 From: Andrzej Krzysztofowicz Message-Id: <200104061035.MAA13189@sunrise.pg.gda.pl> Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? To: cate@debian.org Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:35:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: johan.adolfsson@axis.com (Johan Adolfsson), linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <3ACD8ECC.F2518B90@math.ethz.ch> from "Giacomo Catenazzi" at Apr 06, 2001 11:39:24 AM Reply-To: ankry@green.mif.pg.gda.pl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org "Giacomo Catenazzi wrote:" > Johan Adolfsson wrote: > > > > Having the help close to the config sounds like a good idea > > from a maintenance point of view. > > But in 2.5.x the config.in are centralized, thus also > Configure.help sould be centralized. > And in this case I think that a big file hurts nobody. What about common config options (like CONFIG_PCI, CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF, CONFIG_SMP, CONFIG_SERIAL), which have Configure.help entries wtitten in PC-centric style? What is info about ISA/EISA bus for sparc users for? Why no info about SBUS there? What is COM3 for Amiga user? How can alpha user compile kernel for Pentium? What is the difference between ELF and A.OUT for architectures that do not support a.out at all? IMO some, even very standard, options may need different explanations for different architectures. Maybe some kind of architecture-specyfic #include in Configure.help entries? Just my 0.03 PLZ Andrzej From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:47:06 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:46:46 -0400 Received: from frege-d-math-north-g-west.math.ethz.ch ([129.132.145.3]:32185 "EHLO frege.math.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:46:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACDAC73.4110C6E4@math.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:45:55 +0200 From: Giacomo Catenazzi Reply-To: cate@debian.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ankry@green.mif.pg.gda.pl CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Arch specific/multiple Configure.help files? In-Reply-To: <200104061035.MAA13189@sunrise.pg.gda.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Andrzej Krzysztofowicz wrote: > > "Giacomo Catenazzi wrote:" > > Johan Adolfsson wrote: > > > > > > Having the help close to the config sounds like a good idea > > > from a maintenance point of view. > > > > But in 2.5.x the config.in are centralized, thus also > > Configure.help sould be centralized. > > And in this case I think that a big file hurts nobody. > > What about common config options (like CONFIG_PCI, CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF, > CONFIG_SMP, CONFIG_SERIAL), which have Configure.help entries wtitten in > PC-centric style? > > What is info about ISA/EISA bus for sparc users for? Why no info about SBUS > there? > What is COM3 for Amiga user? > How can alpha user compile kernel for Pentium? > What is the difference between ELF and A.OUT for architectures that do not > support a.out at all? > > IMO some, even very standard, options may need different explanations for > different architectures. > > Maybe some kind of architecture-specyfic #include in Configure.help entries? Two possibilities: With std configuration language change: : bool 'std IPC support' CONFIG_IPC into : bool 'arch specific IPC help' CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH : define_bool CONFIG_IPC CONFIG_IPC_STRANGE_ARCH This is "clean" and is allowed by CML1 (and in CML2 with a similar change). Or we can use the method of Johan. But if we move some option in i386/Configure.help, users of other arch instead of being little confused, their will see no help -> worse! Maybe before to make changes, all developers should read the documentation and update/change it in a non i386 centric view. BTW some other arch will use i386 devices, thus or we duplicate (and that one of the copy will be old) some entry of we must make configure.help i386 centric (and provide other help for other arch). But SPARC and SPARC64 will use some configuration (different to i386), thus we should duplicate half configuration in SPARC.. ? giacomo