From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S261249AbTISE0d (ORCPT ); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:26:33 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S261262AbTISE0d (ORCPT ); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:26:33 -0400 Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]:60657 "EHLO pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S261249AbTISE0a (ORCPT ); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:26:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:26:21 -0700 To: Mikael Pettersson Cc: Ross Boylan , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Manoj Srivastava Subject: Re: PROBLEM: Default initial config options all N Message-ID: <20030919042621.GZ12620@wheat.boylan.org> References: <20030918165905.GX12620@wheat.boylan.org> <16233.64980.415212.495182@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16233.64980.415212.495182@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Ross Boylan Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 08:47:48PM +0200, Mikael Pettersson wrote: > Ross Boylan writes: > > Please cc me on replies. > > > > [1.] One line summary of the problem: > > Defaults for oldconfig options not set correctly in recent 2.4 kernels > > Define "correctly". Hint: it's user-dependent. As I'm sure you're aware, defaults are not user-dependent; whether to accept the default is user-dependent. Correctly = appropriate default setting as determined by kernel developers. For all the new options to default to N requires both of the following statements to be true: 1) All the defaults are properly N. 2) Defaults should be inconsistent with the textual help's specification of what you should do if you're unsure. 1) seems unlikely and 2) is inconsistent with previous practice in the kernel configuration, as well as inconsistent with reasonable behavior. > > > [2.] Full description of the problem/report: > > Built 2.4.21 kernel, starting with config file from 2.4.20 and running > > oldconfig. *All* new config options had default values of N. The > > help text for the following options suggested "if unsure, pick Y": > > PF_KEY > > CONFIG_INET_AH > > CONFIG_INET_ESP > > CONFIG_INET_IPCOMP > > CONFIG_IP_NF_TFTP > > CONFIG_XFRM_USER > > Not a bug. > > > Sample from the config dialog: > > > > PF_KEY sockets (CONFIG_NET_KEY) [N/y/m/?] (NEW) ? > > > > CONFIG_NET_KEY: > > > > PF_KEYv2 socket family, compatible to KAME ones. > > They are required if you are going to use IPsec tools ported > > from KAME. > > > > Say Y unless you know what you are doing. > > PF_KEY sockets (CONFIG_NET_KEY) [N/y/m/?] (NEW) y > > Still not a bug. oldconfig stopped and asked you what to do, > you checked the help text and chose Y. Are you saying that oldconfig defaults to all N, but regular config does something else? I'd consider that undesirable behavior. Whether it's a bug is a philosophical question. > > Option authors tend to want people to enable them (enable this > cool feature!) but in real life, most are Ok to disable. Are you saying option authors write the help text, but someone else sets the default response? So one may recommend Y while the other recommends N? If so, that seems undesirable (and, to repeat, not consistent with my earlier experiences). > > If oldconfig were to choose Y for new options, then _that_ > would be a bug. >