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From: "Guillaume Lacôte" <Guillaume@Lacote.name>
To: "Jörn Engel" <joern@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Linux@glacote.com
Subject: Re: Using compression before encryption in device-mapper
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:16:53 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200404231716.53481.Guillaume@Lacote.name> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040422160033.GB23746@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Feel free to ignore all of my reply; please note that I am not trying to "be 
right" or to "be wrong" but I still do not understand ... Thank you still for 
your time and pedagogy.

> Yeah, sure, the attacker has no idea what the plaintext of those
> blocks is, but if they appear often enough, it has to be something
> quite common.  Something like, say, all ones or all zeros.  Or like
> one of those 48 common huffman encodings thereof.
> [...]
> So what!  You end up with maybe three bits per zero (assuming all
> zeros).  Depending on the size of random data up front, they start
> with bit 1, 2 or 3.  Makes 3*2^3 or 24 possibilities.  Same for all
> ones, give a total of 48.  Great, a dictionary attack is 48x slower
> now!
> [...]
> Still, towards the end of all-ones or all-zeros, each byte will be
> encoded with the same 1-3bit value.
The point I fail to understand is the following : you know the enciphered 
value of these 1-3bits. But how can you know what is 
compressed-but-deciphered 1-3bit value ? Ok my text contains only 0s. OK 
these 0s appear to be "011" once encrypted. How do you launch your 
dictionnary attack ? You do _not_ (?) know what the 3bit deciphered code for 
"0" is. Or maybe you do ?

> [...]
> In that case, what's your point.  If the key is strong and the
> encryption is strong (I sure hope, AES is), nothing short of brute
> force can be successful.  What are you protecting against?
Maybe my "endless" story is absurd, but I am _not_ protecting against weak 
keys; I am trying to protected against weak _data_ , which is the basis for 
dictionnary attacks even in the case of perfectly random keys.

Thank you for having read till here,
Guillaume.


  reply	other threads:[~2004-04-23 15:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-04-13 15:44 Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-13 16:57 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-14  6:48   ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-13 17:45 ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-13 19:42   ` Ville Herva
2004-04-14  6:54   ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14  9:43     ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-14 10:02       ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14 11:25         ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-14 12:44         ` Paulo Marques
2004-04-14 13:34           ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-14 13:58           ` maccorin
2004-04-14 14:02           ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14 14:39             ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-04-14 15:07               ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14 16:14                 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-04-14 15:23             ` Paulo Marques
2004-04-14 15:32               ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14 17:25           ` Bill Davidsen
2004-04-15  9:28 ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-22  7:59   ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-22  9:18     ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-22 10:20       ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-22 12:15         ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-22 13:06           ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-22 16:00             ` Jörn Engel
2004-04-23 15:16               ` Guillaume Lacôte [this message]
2004-04-23 16:57                 ` Jörn Engel
     [not found] <1KykU-4VD-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <1KPvh-26S-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <1KSMw-4P1-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <1KTfJ-5gK-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-04-14 15:02       ` Pascal Schmidt
2004-04-14 15:25         ` Guillaume Lacôte
2004-04-14 19:29           ` Pascal Schmidt

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