From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S262328AbUEKALp (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2004 20:11:45 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S262176AbUEKALp (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2004 20:11:45 -0400 Received: from fw.osdl.org ([65.172.181.6]:12162 "EHLO mail.osdl.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262328AbUEKALl (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2004 20:11:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:14:13 -0700 From: Andrew Morton To: Chris Wedgwood Cc: hch@infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: 2.6.6-mm1 Message-Id: <20040510171413.6c1699b8.akpm@osdl.org> In-Reply-To: <20040510235312.GA9348@taniwha.stupidest.org> References: <20040510024506.1a9023b6.akpm@osdl.org> <20040510223755.A7773@infradead.org> <20040510150203.3257ccac.akpm@osdl.org> <20040510231146.GA5168@taniwha.stupidest.org> <20040510162818.376b4a55.akpm@osdl.org> <20040510233342.GA5614@taniwha.stupidest.org> <20040510165132.5107472e.akpm@osdl.org> <20040510235312.GA9348@taniwha.stupidest.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Chris Wedgwood wrote: > > On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 04:51:32PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote: > > > Maybe that's the price we pay for leaving this problem unsolved for > > a year. > > I didn't know it needed solving until recently. I guess I've been > under a rock or something then. It has stagnated. I think the mindset has been "oh, we need to ship a hack because upstream is bust" and so nobody did anything. > > You misunderstand. Nasty workarounds will be shipped to end users > > by vendors. That's a certainty. We cannot change this now. > > Vendors will support this too presumably. > > > What I wish to do is to ensure that all users receive the *same* > > nasty workaround. Call it damage control. > > How urgent is this? Can it wait a few more weeks? It seems people > are new looking at this and a little more discussion won't hurt if > it's been a year already. > Migrating away from this will require work from vendors, Oracle, PAM developers, /bin/login and /bin/su developers. Until that has happened I think we should arrange for vendor kernels and kernel.org kernels to offer the same interfaces. And I don't think pulling the feature out of kernel.org kernels will provide any added stimulus, frankly. They'll just ship the hack and go off to do something else. If someone had done the kernel and userspace work 6-12 months ago then sure, we wouldn't be in this situation. As to whether it is practical to jam all this work through at this stage: dunno, really. I doubt it. It would be good to try though.