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From: Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>
To: Paul Jackson <pj@sgi.com>
Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	mrmacman_g4@mac.com, akpm@osdl.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	bunk@stusta.de
Subject: Re: [RFC][MEGAPATCH] Change __ASSEMBLY__ to __ASSEMBLER__ (defined by GCC from 2.95 to current CVS)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:17:59 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050912171759.GA11973@mars.ravnborg.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050912084756.4fa2bd07.pj@sgi.com>

On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 08:47:56AM -0700, Paul Jackson wrote:
> hpa wrote:
> > The only sane thing is to have a set of ABI headers with a clean, 
> > specific set of rules, which is included by the kernel private headers, 
> > as well as userspace.
> 
> Why must the ABI headers be included by both kernel and user headers to
> be sane?

Thats the only way to keep them consistent.
Likewise we do not have seperate copies of the core headers for
individual subsystems.

If one have to edit in two places when adding a list of constants for
example you can be sure at one point in time the second place is
forgotten.
What does this separation where user space headers live a life outside
the kernel buy us? As kernel developers we are free to think on the user
psace side - thats nice sometimes. But hiding in a hole is not the
way we create the best interfaces. That has the kernel model shwed many
times. It requires publicity and frequent usage to be good. Two thinks
that is harder to get when we hide.

But seen form the userspace perspective this is horrible. 
They have to maintain a set of almost duplicated headers with 
various licenses, sync problems etc. for absolutely no gain.

	Sam

  reply	other threads:[~2005-09-12 17:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-02  3:00 [RFC] Splitting out kernel<=>userspace ABI headers Kyle Moffett
2005-09-02 13:41 ` Erik Andersen
2005-09-02 20:51   ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-02 23:58     ` Erik Andersen
2005-09-03  0:07       ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03  0:30         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-03  0:34           ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03  0:50             ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-03  4:28         ` Erik Andersen
2005-09-03  5:22           ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03  5:50             ` Erik Andersen
2005-09-03  5:53               ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03  6:41                 ` Erik Andersen
2005-09-03 15:01                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03 15:19                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03 16:55                     ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-05 16:35                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-05 23:28                         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-06  1:29                           ` [RFC][MEGAPATCH] Change __ASSEMBLY__ to __ASSEMBLER__ (defined by GCC from 2.95 to current CVS) Kyle Moffett
2005-09-10  8:40                             ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-10  8:45                               ` Andrew Morton
2005-09-10 17:38                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-10 22:04                                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-09-11  0:33                                     ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-11  0:48                                       ` Andrew Morton
2005-09-11  3:15                                         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-12  8:09                                           ` Paul Jackson
2005-09-12 15:19                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-12 15:47                                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-09-12 17:17                                                 ` Sam Ravnborg [this message]
2005-09-12 21:14                                                   ` Paul Jackson
2005-09-12 21:39                                                     ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-12 17:18                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-12 17:51                                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-12 21:04                                                   ` Paul Jackson
2005-09-14 13:56                                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-09-15 21:53                                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2005-09-03  5:55           ` [RFC] Splitting out kernel<=>userspace ABI headers Kyle Moffett
2005-09-03  5:57             ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-03  6:05               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-03 15:36             ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-09-03 16:33               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-03 16:51                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-09-14 13:46         ` Bill Davidsen
2005-09-14 17:01           ` Sam Ravnborg
2005-09-14 17:01             ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-14 18:14           ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-14 19:09             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-09-14 19:20               ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-14 19:46               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-02 21:42 ` Jeff Dike
2005-09-02 21:55   ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-02 22:44     ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-02 23:24       ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-09-02 23:41         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-02 23:53           ` H. Peter Anvin

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