From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751118AbWEVTNP (ORCPT ); Mon, 22 May 2006 15:13:15 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751117AbWEVTNP (ORCPT ); Mon, 22 May 2006 15:13:15 -0400 Received: from gprs189-60.eurotel.cz ([160.218.189.60]:12510 "EHLO amd.ucw.cz") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751088AbWEVTNO (ORCPT ); Mon, 22 May 2006 15:13:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:12:30 +0200 From: Pavel Machek To: John Richard Moser Cc: Arjan van de Ven , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] 2.6.16.16 Parameter-controlled mmap/stack randomization Message-ID: <20060522191230.GE2979@elf.ucw.cz> References: <1148132838.3041.3.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <446F3483.40208@comcast.net> <20060522010606.GC25434@elf.ucw.cz> <44712605.4000001@comcast.net> <20060522083352.GA11923@elf.ucw.cz> <4471E77F.1010704@comcast.net> <20060522170036.GD1893@elf.ucw.cz> <4471FAD0.9060403@comcast.net> <20060522184003.GD2979@elf.ucw.cz> <44720ACB.7040808@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44720ACB.7040808@comcast.net> X-Warning: Reading this can be dangerous to your mental health. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Hi! > >>> Well, fix emacs then. We definitely do not want 10000 settable knobs > >>> that randomly break things. OTOH per-architecture different randomness > >>> seems like good idea. And if Oracle breaks, fix it. > >> Fix this, fix that. In due time perhaps. I'm pretty sure Linus isn't > >> going to break anything, esp. since his mail client breaks too. > > > > Good. So fix emacs/oracle/pine, and year or so and some time after it > > is fixed, we can change kernel defaults. That's still less bad than > > having > > > > [ ] Break emacs > > > > in kernel config. > > Nobody is going to fix emacs/oracle/pine, they don't have to. Nothing > is making them. The kernel will wait for them so who cares. No, _you_ have to fix emacs/oracle/pine. You claimed your patch is interesting for secure distros, so you obviously have manpower for that, right? > >> Why should it NOT be configurable anyway? If you don't configure it, > >> then it behaves just like it would if it wasn't configurable at all. > >> This is called "having sane defaults." > > > > Because if it is configurable, someone _will_ configure it wrong, and > > then ask us why it does not work. > > Oh big deal. People configure out ide drivers and ask why their kernel > doesn't boot all the time. Distro maintainers do most of the work. As you may have noticed, I'm at receiving end of those bug reports. And what you propose is actually *worse* than IDE, because at least you get relatively clear error message when misconfiguring IDE. > > And if it is configurable, applications will not get fixed for > > basically forever. > > FUD. If it's not configurable, applications will not get fixed for > basically forever, and nobody will put the breaking code into mainline. > Linus is NOT giving 256M/256M randomization on mainline as default > ever. For x86-64... why not? -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html