From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1423319AbWF1Ngn (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:36:43 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932802AbWF1Ngn (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:36:43 -0400 Received: from MAIL.13thfloor.at ([212.16.62.50]:43243 "EHLO mail.13thfloor.at") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932795AbWF1Ngl (ORCPT ); Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:36:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:36:40 +0200 From: Herbert Poetzl To: "Eric W. Biederman" Cc: Alexey Kuznetsov , Dave Hansen , Ben Greear , Daniel Lezcano , Andrey Savochkin , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, serue@us.ibm.com, clg@fr.ibm.com, Andrew Morton , dev@sw.ru, devel@openvz.org, sam@vilain.net, viro@ftp.linux.org.uk, Alexey Kuznetsov Subject: Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view Message-ID: <20060628133640.GB5088@MAIL.13thfloor.at> Mail-Followup-To: "Eric W. Biederman" , Alexey Kuznetsov , Dave Hansen , Ben Greear , Daniel Lezcano , Andrey Savochkin , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, serue@us.ibm.com, clg@fr.ibm.com, Andrew Morton , dev@sw.ru, devel@openvz.org, sam@vilain.net, viro@ftp.linux.org.uk, Alexey Kuznetsov References: <20060627133849.E13959@castle.nmd.msu.ru> <44A1149E.6060802@fr.ibm.com> <20060627160241.GB28984@MAIL.13thfloor.at> <44A1689B.7060809@candelatech.com> <20060627225213.GB2612@MAIL.13thfloor.at> <1151449973.24103.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060627234210.GA1598@ms2.inr.ac.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:38:14PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Alexey Kuznetsov writes: > > > Hello! > > > >> It may look weird, but do application really *need* to see eth0 rather > >> than eth858354? > > > > Applications do not care, humans do. :-) > > > > What's about applications they just need to see exactly the same > > device after migration. Not only name, but f.e. also its ifindex. > > If you do not create a separate namespace for netdevices, you will > > inevitably end up with some strange hack sort of VPIDs to translate > > (or to partition) ifindices or to tell that "ping -I eth858354 xxx" > > is too coimplicated application to survive migration. > > > Actually there are applications with peculiar licensing practices that > do look at devices like eth0 to verify you have the appropriate mac, and > do really weird things if you don't have an eth0. > > Plus there are other cases where it can be simpler to hard code things > if it is allowable. (The human factor) Otherwise your configuration > must be done through hotplug scripts. > > But yes there are misguided applications that care. last time I pointed to such 'misguided' apps which made assumptions that are not necessarily true inside a virtual environment (e.g. pstree, initpid) the general? position was that those apps should be fixed instead adding a 'workaround' note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing the device names so that each guest can have a separate name space for devices, but there should be a way to 'see' _and_ 'identify' the interfaces from outside (i.e. host or spectator context) best, Herbert > Eric