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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Eugeny S. Mints" <eugeny.mints@gmail.com>
Cc: Matthew Locke <matt@nomadgs.com>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
	Amit Kucheria <amit.kucheria@nokia.com>,
	pm list <linux-pm@lists.osdl.org>,
	Mark Gross <mgross@linux.intel.com>,
	Preece Scott-PREECE <scott.preece@motorola.com>,
	Igor Stoppa <igor.stoppa@nokia.com>
Subject: cpufreq terminally broken [was Re: community PM requirements/issues and PowerOP]
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:56:17 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060911225617.GB13474@elf.ucw.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4505DDA6.8080603@gmail.com>

Hi!

Just for the record... this goes out to the lkml. This discussion was
internal for way too long. (for interested lkml readers, I'm sure
linux-pm mailing list has public archive somewhere).

On Tue 2006-09-12 02:05:26, Eugeny S. Mints wrote:
> Pavel Machek wrote:
> >>>>- PowerOP is only one layer (towards the bottom) in a power management 
> >>>>solution.
> >>>>- PowerOP does *not* replace cpufreq
> >>>PowerOP provides userland interface for changing processor
> >>>frequency. That's bad -- duplicate interface.
> >>Basically the biggest problem with cpufreq interface is that cpufreq has 
> >>"chose
> >>predefined closest to a given frequency" functionality implemented in the
> >>kernel while there is _no_ any reason to have this functionality 
> >>implemented in
> >>the kernel if we have sysfs interface exported by PowerOP in place - you 
> >>just
> >
> >No, there is reason to keep that in kernel -- so that cpufreq
> >userspace interface can be kept, and so that resulting kernel<->user
> >interface is not ugly.
> Cpuferq defines cpufreq_frequency_table structure in arch independent 
> header while it's arch dependent data structure. A lot of code is built 
> around this invalid basic brick and therefore is invalid: cpufreq tables, 
> interface with cpu freq drivers, etc. Notion of transition latency as it 
> defined by cpufreq is wrong because it's not a function of cpu type but 
> function of current and next operating point. no runtime control on 
> operating points set. it's always the same set of operating points for all 
> system cpus in smp case and no way to define different sets or track any 
> dependencies in case say multi core cpus. insufficient kernel<->user space 
> interface to handle embedded requirements and no way to extend it within 
> current design. Shall I continue?  Why should then anyone want to keep 
> cpufreq userspace interface just due to keep it?

Yes, please continue. I do not think we can just rip cpufreq interface
out of kernel, and I do not think it is as broken as you claim it
is. Ripping interface out of kernel takes years.

I'm sure cpufreq_frequency_table could be moved to asm/ header if you
felt strongly about that.

I believe we need to fix cpufreq if it is broken for embedded
cases.
								Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

       reply	other threads:[~2006-09-11 22:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <450516E8.9010403@gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <20060911082025.GD1898@elf.ucw.cz>
     [not found]   ` <b0623b9bb79afacc77cddc6e39c96b62@nomadgs.com>
     [not found]     ` <20060911195546.GB11901@elf.ucw.cz>
     [not found]       ` <4505CCDA.8020501@gmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <20060911210026.GG11901@elf.ucw.cz>
     [not found]           ` <4505DDA6.8080603@gmail.com>
2006-09-11 22:56             ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2006-09-12  0:17               ` Mark Gross
2006-09-12  3:37                 ` Greg KH
2006-09-13 23:50                   ` [linux-pm] " David Singleton
2006-09-14  5:30                     ` Vitaly Wool
2006-09-14  5:55                     ` OpPoint summary Greg KH
2006-09-14  7:35                       ` [linux-pm] " Vitaly Wool
2006-09-14 16:55                       ` David Singleton
2006-09-14 17:03                       ` David Singleton
2006-09-14 17:07                       ` David Singleton
2006-09-14 17:25                         ` Auke Kok
2006-09-14 18:15                           ` [linux-pm] " Vitaly Wool
2006-09-14 18:17                           ` David Singleton
2006-09-17 17:48                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-18 14:33                           ` [linux-pm] " Richard A. Griffiths
2006-09-18 16:13                             ` Matthew Locke
2006-09-14 17:11                       ` David Singleton
2006-09-17  5:07                       ` David Singleton
2006-09-17 12:56                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-17 12:58                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-17 22:43                         ` [linux-pm] " Matthew Locke
2006-09-12  8:33                 ` cpufreq terminally broken [was Re: community PM requirements/issues and PowerOP] Pavel Machek
2006-09-12  9:10                   ` [linux-pm] " Vitaly Wool
2006-09-12  9:16                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-12  9:23                       ` Vitaly Wool
2006-09-14 15:04                     ` Mark Gross
2006-09-14 14:58                   ` Mark Gross

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