From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1760306AbXGEO5T (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:57:19 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1756948AbXGEO5L (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:57:11 -0400 Received: from ogre.sisk.pl ([217.79.144.158]:53979 "EHLO ogre.sisk.pl" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755694AbXGEO5K (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:57:10 -0400 From: "Rafael J. Wysocki" To: Matthew Garrett Subject: Re: removing refrigerator does not help with s2ram vs. fuse deadlocks (was Re: [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:04:47 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: Pavel Machek , Paul Mackerras , Alan Stern , Johannes Berg , Linux-pm mailing list , Kernel development list References: <18059.6726.218205.104212@cargo.ozlabs.ibm.com> <200707051641.39998.rjw@sisk.pl> <20070705143918.GA23248@srcf.ucam.org> In-Reply-To: <20070705143918.GA23248@srcf.ucam.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200707051704.48137.rjw@sisk.pl> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thursday, 5 July 2007 16:39, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 04:41:39PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > > On Thursday, 5 July 2007 16:26, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 04:28:11PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > > > > On Thursday, 5 July 2007 15:57, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > > > > And also "Userland should not depend on userland services", which is > > > > > rather more of a problem. > > > > > > > > I think you're oversimplifying it, as far as FUSE is concerned. > > > > > > > > Namely, if there are two userland tasks, A and B, and B is uninterruptible, > > > > because A is blocked, then this is not a usual situation. > > > > > > Fuse is one case of it occuring, and if we end up with more userspace > > > drivers then the problem is only going to get worse. > > > > But this is a problem by itself, regardless of the freezer etc., no? > > Why? You have processes that don't react to signals, because some other user land task is misbehaving. I'd call that ugly at the very least. Greetings, Rafael -- "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." - Donald Knuth