From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1762377AbXGFBO3 (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:14:29 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1760034AbXGFBOT (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:14:19 -0400 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183]:51287 "EHLO smtp.gentoo.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1758293AbXGFBOS (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:14:18 -0400 From: Mike Frysinger Organization: wh0rd.org To: Bryan Henderson Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] util-linux-ng 2.13-rc1 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:16:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 Cc: 7eggert@gmx.de, Karel Zak , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Nix , List util-linux-ng References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4791431.GoP8oMTnh2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200707052116.16681.vapier@gentoo.org> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --nextPart4791431.GoP8oMTnh2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 05 July 2007, Bryan Henderson wrote: > >i dont see how blaming autotools for other people's misuse is relevant > > Here's how other people's misuse of the tool can be relevant to the choice > of the tool: some tools are easier to use right than others. Probably the > easiest thing to use right is the system you designed and built yourself. > I've considered distributing code with an Autotools-based build system > before and determined quickly that I am not up to that challenge. (The > bigger part of the challenge isn't writing the original input files; it's > debugging when a user says his build doesn't work). But as far as I know, > my hand-rolled build system is used correctly by me. which brings us back to the package maintainer maintains the autotool sourc= e=20 files, not joe blow user. if there's trouble with the build system, then t= he=20 maintainers (who are knowledgeable in autotools) are in a pretty easy=20 position to fix/address it. as you've stated, hand rolled build systems wo= rk=20 great for the guy rolling it, but beyond that all bets are off. util-linux= =20 had a hand rolled build system that fell apart in many places. the=20 maintainers of util-linux have well versed autotool people at their disposa= l,=20 so i really dont see this as being worrisome. > > > checks the width of integers on i386 for projects not caring about th= at > > > and fails to find installed libraries without telling how it was > > > supposed to find them or how to make it find that library. > > > > no idea what this rant is about. > > The second part sounds like my number 1 complaint as a user of > Autotools-based packages: 'configure' often can't find my libraries. I > know exactly where they are, and even what compiler and linker options are > needed to use them, but it often takes a half hour of tracing 'configure' > or generated make files to figure out how to force the build to understand > the same thing. And that's with lots of experience. The first five times > it was much more frustrating. the large majority of time, i find this to be trivial: read config.log. bu= t=20 this comes with familiarity with the tool and autotools is sitting by far t= he=20 best right now. if you're having trouble with the package in question, jus= t=20 ask on the mailing list and post your config.log; i'm sure you'd get someon= e=20 to readily point out the answer. =2Dmike --nextPart4791431.GoP8oMTnh2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (GNU/Linux) iQIVAwUARo2X4EFjO5/oN/WBAQKpLRAA0LG/pEqFlP/y67ib7mtl5kr7sYzH7/Jz V/FXLoEO2fP243xUWU+jXw2bG6aEgH/jJ0zvsVUwydlJ9ytnlhQ89nSCatRWu8Wq +lK2xawP3SXZy041Pr9lt5ADXyw9M+LfiQW4v7ljNJzdF7ah8jKnMdWQjj0oUzHI lK0tQUj4DISLsJStzQk89bAn7E4Ci7md5p6x+/sOk041AzVaV/JvxLc0Ipvr8AvF ca2PchbZcXKyPTbn74qCm7+kp6nTF1mJwju+AnCJGTzkpCnILg2pJGMcZX4i2yH9 xgeY+Wb0kcgY4Q22Y6i8uu3ajzCW2IJqQvnutsGrIjd5i472KKG4mMIXUYsEkr/7 OeWVi9TKMq6vLM+G37r7fAa7lmEzejZ+rvT5fFTPvzE8p9W0vL/Bq8HN7Ix52LBQ ExdIlFKmcOJ0KxOXi1eIU5cNOz8dR8ZWw5XQrzyqCQXecNzbk68gwq6dFmHmJqPT w4niuL9chxsgvj1RxR3smPI4E4+k28jt2iCGsm34VUPCjLGuMBVDFFeO7zQWrs45 j9Lfctc2CuvH/uKT4sPAUloul884K6D117NoRHSWmpANDK7Rg+4EmHGySjxcJrRw Ib/jU+5Qunhb1bTYFgIxBN4i7k3kovVKhkNeeO/B9nuxcAb2dM+aPr0ABepj6pN7 K6eDiq2yUcw= =9gWN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4791431.GoP8oMTnh2--