From: Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
To: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>
Cc: rjw@sisk.pl, nigel@suspend2.net, pavel@ucw.cz,
benh@kernel.crashing.org, mjg59@srcf.ucam.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:51:47 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200707060951.47555.oliver@neukum.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1I6iPL-0003Hj-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu>
Am Freitag, 6. Juli 2007 schrieb Miklos Szeredi:
> > > You're missing the point. I'm arguing that a sync from within the freezer
> > > should guarantee that there is no data loss.
> >
> > Well, it should, but it doesn't ...
> >
> > Moreover, if FUSE implements syncing, then the sync from within the freezer
> > will almost certainly deadlock.
>
> Rafael, think positively: by the time fuse implements sync(), the
> freezer will be long gone ;)
Now you are entering really dangerous territory.
If you can implement a meaningfull sync method, you must have dirty
pages in the page cache. That means you are in the page freeing path
of the vm. Then we are in real trouble. Don't even think about it.
As far as suspend/hibernate is concerned, get yourself on the new
notifying chain and revert to synchronous operations when notified.
Regards
Oliver
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-07-06 7:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 387+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-07-03 4:29 Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 4:54 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-03 5:21 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 5:24 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-03 5:48 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 6:08 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-03 7:19 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 7:44 ` [linux-pm] " Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 10:47 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 11:07 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 11:22 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 11:27 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 11:45 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 11:50 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 0:02 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-03 11:44 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 11:55 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 23:40 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 7:02 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-04 8:02 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 8:26 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-04 10:26 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 12:58 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 15:46 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 11:23 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-03 11:42 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 23:11 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 8:11 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 8:27 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 8:39 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 9:21 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 10:08 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 10:46 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 10:53 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 10:59 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 11:02 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 14:44 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 15:58 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 4:02 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 15:04 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 0:28 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-03 11:40 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 11:46 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 13:07 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 12:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 14:21 ` [linux-pm] " Johannes Berg
2007-07-03 14:50 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 14:59 ` Johannes Berg
2007-07-03 15:22 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 17:38 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 20:54 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 20:21 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 4:59 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 14:57 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 0:23 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 6:58 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 8:17 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 8:24 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 8:41 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 8:48 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 8:58 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 10:02 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 10:14 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 11:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 11:54 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 13:23 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 13:28 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 13:46 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 14:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:23 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 14:46 ` Ray Lee
2007-07-05 15:00 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 14:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 16:06 ` Jeremy Maitin-Shepard
2007-07-06 5:45 ` Daniel Pittman
2007-07-05 14:02 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 22:38 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 7:04 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 7:30 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-06 12:35 ` Benny Amorsen
2007-07-06 12:45 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 9:18 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 9:31 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 11:54 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 12:07 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 13:28 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 19:38 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 19:44 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 20:19 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 20:38 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 21:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 20:34 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 20:46 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 20:49 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 20:53 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 21:06 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 21:15 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-05 21:31 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 21:07 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 21:15 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 21:26 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 21:37 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-06 7:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 8:59 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 9:31 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-06 9:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-07 2:46 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-07 2:44 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-07 20:48 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 0:50 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-05 23:05 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 3:59 ` Jeremy Maitin-Shepard
2007-07-06 7:32 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-07 12:17 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-07 20:42 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-07 23:33 ` malicious filesystems (was Re: [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway) Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 7:21 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-08 8:15 ` Off topically about Re: malicious filesystems (was " Oleg Verych
2007-07-08 12:37 ` malicious filesystems (was Re: [linux-pm] " Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 13:58 ` Al Viro
2007-07-08 16:23 ` David Brownell
2007-07-08 14:23 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-08 18:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 18:28 ` Al Viro
2007-07-08 19:50 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-08 21:07 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-09 9:28 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-09 9:36 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-09 9:40 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-08 14:06 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-09 16:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-12 15:31 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-12 21:56 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-12 23:13 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 11:58 ` [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 12:24 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 13:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 13:50 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 14:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:14 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 22:04 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-06 7:07 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-07 12:19 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-06 7:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:23 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 22:59 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 7:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 15:13 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 7:19 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-08 7:35 ` [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway (philosophical) Oleg Verych
2007-07-07 7:56 ` [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Pavel Machek
2007-07-04 3:55 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 15:12 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 0:35 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 9:15 ` removing refrigerator does not help with s2ram vs. fuse deadlocks (was Re: [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway) Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 13:57 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 14:28 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:26 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 14:41 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:39 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 15:04 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 15:03 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-05 15:27 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 15:32 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-07 11:50 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-07 20:14 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-07 11:49 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-07 12:08 ` problem 1 (was Re: removing refrigerator does not help with s2ram vs. fuse deadlocks (was Re: [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway)) Pavel Machek
2007-07-07 20:55 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:42 ` [linux-pm] Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Alan Stern
2007-07-03 14:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 14:48 ` Johannes Berg
2007-07-03 21:14 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 21:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 21:35 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 22:43 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 3:29 ` [linux-pm] " Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 10:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 10:48 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 11:10 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 11:24 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 14:30 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 0:15 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 11:54 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-07 12:09 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-04 11:25 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 22:19 ` The big suspend mess Adrian Bunk
2007-07-05 0:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 0:53 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 9:32 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 10:29 ` Gabriel C
2007-07-05 10:32 ` Fabio Comolli
2007-07-05 1:22 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-07-05 12:18 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:14 ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2007-07-05 9:30 ` [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 22:46 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-05 23:13 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-05 23:20 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-05 23:35 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 1:19 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-07-06 1:37 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 3:59 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 7:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 9:03 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 14:38 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-07 3:44 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-07 11:49 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 0:40 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-07 16:17 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 0:42 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 2:24 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 4:39 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 18:46 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 20:22 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 21:08 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 21:21 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 6:52 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-09 9:14 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 11:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 18:26 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 18:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 15:42 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-07 0:43 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-07-07 2:59 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-07 4:06 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-07 17:19 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 0:48 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 2:53 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 5:14 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 5:19 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 20:17 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 19:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 21:03 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 21:07 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 21:45 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 21:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 22:13 ` hibernation/snapshot design [was Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway] Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 22:23 ` david
2007-07-08 23:00 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 23:20 ` david
2007-07-08 23:28 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 23:45 ` david
2007-07-09 15:23 ` hibernation/snapshot design Jeremy Maitin-Shepard
2007-07-08 23:01 ` hibernation/snapshot design [was Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway] Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 23:03 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-10 1:33 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-10 1:56 ` [linux-pm] " Paul Mackerras
2007-07-08 20:16 ` [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Alan Stern
2007-07-08 21:01 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-08 21:20 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-08 22:06 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-09 0:33 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 0:57 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-07-09 1:32 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 6:47 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-09 9:13 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 9:23 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-09 9:33 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 14:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-07-09 10:02 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-09 10:05 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-09 16:03 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-08 21:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-08 20:55 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-06 3:54 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 4:03 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 4:41 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-06 5:25 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 5:01 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-07-06 5:53 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-10 2:07 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-10 3:03 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-07-05 0:03 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 0:46 ` [linux-pm] " Paul Mackerras
2007-07-03 5:49 ` [linux-pm] " Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 13:07 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 5:51 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 13:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 15:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 17:20 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 20:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 21:35 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 22:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 23:39 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 6:53 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 18:26 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 19:13 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 19:32 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 19:47 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 20:02 ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2007-07-03 20:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 21:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 20:45 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 21:20 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 21:48 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 21:56 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 22:04 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 23:08 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-04 8:10 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 23:45 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-05 12:25 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 12:38 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-05 13:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 13:36 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-05 13:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 21:49 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 7:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-06 7:39 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-06 7:51 ` Oliver Neukum [this message]
2007-07-06 9:09 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-06 9:16 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-07-06 9:33 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 21:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 19:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-03 21:25 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 21:16 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-07-03 6:13 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 6:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-03 12:13 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 13:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 7:37 ` Romano Giannetti
2007-07-03 8:20 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 13:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 12:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-09 13:29 ` sysrq-t dumps of s2ram/fuse deadlock (was Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway) Pavel Machek
2007-07-11 13:28 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-11 13:45 ` sysrq-t dumps of s2ram/fuse deadlock Jeremy Maitin-Shepard
2007-07-12 9:17 ` sysrq-t dumps of s2ram/fuse deadlock (was Re: [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway) Pavel Machek
2007-07-03 16:03 ` [linux-pm] [PATCH] Remove process freezer from suspend to RAM pathway Alan Stern
2007-07-03 16:05 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 16:57 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 17:02 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 19:33 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 19:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 19:54 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 20:23 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 21:10 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 21:12 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 21:16 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 21:20 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 21:37 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 21:36 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-03 21:47 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-03 22:46 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 3:38 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 10:42 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 10:58 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 11:25 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 11:34 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-04 14:12 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2007-07-04 15:38 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 19:07 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 11:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-04 14:41 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-04 14:45 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-04 15:03 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 15:17 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 0:29 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 12:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-12 15:13 ` Pavel Machek
2007-07-04 15:42 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 19:25 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-04 21:36 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 8:37 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 12:39 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 12:39 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 16:10 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-07-05 17:45 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 0:43 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 12:49 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 0:36 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-07-05 12:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 12:50 ` Johannes Berg
2007-07-05 13:47 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-05 14:25 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-05 17:42 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-07-05 20:43 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 12:41 ` Theodore Tso
2007-07-04 14:40 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-07-03 22:21 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-03 22:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-04 14:38 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 14:58 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-07-04 15:02 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-07-04 15:57 ` Alan Stern
2007-07-04 23:33 ` Pavel Machek
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