From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1756247AbYIPPoS (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:44:18 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752585AbYIPPoB (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:44:01 -0400 Received: from smtp4.pp.htv.fi ([213.243.153.38]:48398 "EHLO smtp4.pp.htv.fi" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752064AbYIPPoA (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:44:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:43:42 +0300 From: Adrian Bunk To: Arjan van de Ven Cc: Theodore Tso , Jarek Poplawski , Thomas Bogendoerfer , David Miller , jeff@garzik.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: [git patches] net driver fixes Message-ID: <20080916154342.GD1400@cs181140183.pp.htv.fi> References: <20080916104811.GC7397@cs181140183.pp.htv.fi> <20080916114305.GB10965@ff.dom.local> <20080916121528.GD7397@cs181140183.pp.htv.fi> <20080916135408.GB13388@mit.edu> <20080916070241.3e8d5202@infradead.org> <20080916143408.GA1400@cs181140183.pp.htv.fi> <20080916074802.200c8a43@infradead.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916074802.200c8a43@infradead.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 07:48:02AM -0700, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:34:10 +0300 > Adrian Bunk wrote: >... > > And the same also e.g. goes for bugs where your machine is completely > > dead (no SysRq possible) with nothing in the logs. > > that's being worked on, by storing the crash data in some non-volatile > piece of memory The kerneloops list is helpful, and improving it is great, but it will never be able to cover 100% of all problems on 100% of all computers. > > The kerneloops lists are quite valuable, but they can never cover all > > classes of fatal bugs. > > if you want perfection, you're not going to get it. > > "Perfect is the enemy of good" > > If you want to help make things better (as opposed to perfect), you're > very welcome to help out, be it with suggestions on how to improve > or with actual code. You miss my point: We agree that the kerneloops list is not perfect. And usually the bugs with a trace that go into the list are the ones that are easier to debug and fix, while the others might be much harder to debug. If one takes Linus' "simple rule of thumb" literally then a hard to debug bug without any messages anywhere mustn't be fixed outside of a merge window. This literal reading is what doesn't make sense. cu Adrian -- "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. "Only a promise," Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed