From: Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch] document flash/RAID dangers
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:40:45 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090826134045.GA1516467@hiwaay.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090826124058.GK32712@mit.edu>
Once upon a time, Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu> said:
>Well, the softwar raid layer could be improved so that it implements
>scrubbing by default (i.e., have the md package install a cron job to
>implement a periodict scrub pass automatically).
Fedora 11 added a cron job to kick off a RAID check for each Linux MD
RAID array every week. Combined with running mdmonitor, root will get
an email on any failure.
The other thing about this thread is that the only RAID implementation
that is being discussed here is the MD RAID stack. There are a lot of
RAID implementations that have the same issues:
- motherboard (aka "fake") RAID - In Linux this is typically mapped with
device mapper via dmraid; AFAIK there is not a tool to scrub (or even
monitor the status of and notify on failure) a Linux DM RAID setup.
- hardware RAID cards without battery backup - these have the exact same
issues because they cannot guarantee all writes complete, nor can they
keep track of incomplete writes across power failures
- hardware RAID cards _with_ battery backup but that don't periodically
test the battery and have a way to notify you of battery failure while
Linux is running
The issues being raised here are not specific to extX, MD RAID, or Linux
at all; they are problems with non-"enterprise-class" RAID setups.
There's a reason enterprise-class RAID costs a lot more money than the
card you can pick up at Fry's.
There's no reason to document the design issues of general RAID
implementations in the Linux kernel.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-08-26 13:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 272+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-03-12 9:21 ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible Pavel Machek
2009-03-12 11:40 ` Jochen Voß
2009-03-21 11:24 ` Pavel Machek
2009-03-12 19:13 ` Rob Landley
2009-03-16 12:28 ` Pavel Machek
2009-03-16 19:26 ` Rob Landley
2009-03-23 10:45 ` Pavel Machek
2009-03-30 15:06 ` Goswin von Brederlow
2009-08-24 9:26 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 9:31 ` [patch] " Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 11:19 ` Florian Weimer
2009-08-24 13:01 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-24 14:55 ` Artem Bityutskiy
2009-08-24 22:30 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-24 19:52 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 20:24 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-24 20:52 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 21:08 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-24 21:25 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 22:05 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-24 22:22 ` Zan Lynx
2009-08-24 22:44 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 0:34 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-24 23:42 ` david
2009-08-24 22:41 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 22:39 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-24 23:00 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 0:02 ` david
2009-08-25 9:32 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 0:06 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 9:34 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 15:34 ` david
2009-08-26 3:32 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-26 11:17 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 11:29 ` david
2009-08-26 13:10 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 13:43 ` david
2009-08-26 18:02 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-27 6:28 ` Eric Sandeen
2009-11-09 8:53 ` periodic fsck was " Pavel Machek
2009-11-09 14:05 ` Theodore Tso
2009-11-09 15:58 ` Andreas Dilger
2009-08-30 7:03 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 12:28 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-27 6:06 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-27 6:54 ` david
2009-08-27 7:34 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-28 14:37 ` david
2009-08-30 7:19 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-30 12:48 ` david
2009-08-27 5:27 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-25 0:08 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-25 9:42 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 13:37 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 13:42 ` Alan Cox
2009-08-27 3:16 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-25 21:15 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 22:42 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 22:51 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:03 ` david
2009-08-25 23:29 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:03 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 23:26 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:40 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 23:48 ` david
2009-08-25 23:53 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:11 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 0:16 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:31 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 1:00 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-26 1:15 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 2:58 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-26 10:39 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 11:12 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 11:28 ` david
2009-08-29 9:49 ` [testcase] test your fs/storage stack (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 11:28 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-02 20:12 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-02 20:42 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-02 23:00 ` Rob Landley
2009-09-02 23:09 ` david
2009-09-03 8:55 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-03 0:36 ` jim owens
2009-09-03 2:41 ` Rob Landley
2009-09-03 14:14 ` jim owens
2009-09-04 7:44 ` Rob Landley
2009-09-04 11:49 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-05 10:28 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-05 12:20 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-05 13:54 ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-09-05 21:27 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-05 21:56 ` Theodore Tso
2009-09-02 22:45 ` Rob Landley
2009-09-02 22:49 ` [PATCH] Update Documentation/md.txt to mention journaling won't help dirty+degraded case Rob Landley
2009-09-03 9:08 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-03 12:05 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 12:31 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 16:35 ` [testcase] test your fs/storage stack (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) david
2009-08-30 7:07 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 12:01 ` [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 12:23 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-30 7:01 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-27 5:19 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-27 12:24 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-27 13:10 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-27 16:54 ` MD/DM and barriers (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) Jeff Garzik
2009-08-27 18:09 ` Alasdair G Kergon
2009-09-01 14:01 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-02 16:17 ` Michael Tokarev
2009-08-29 10:02 ` [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 1:16 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 2:55 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-26 13:37 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 2:53 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2009-09-03 9:47 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 3:50 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-27 3:53 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-27 11:43 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-27 20:51 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-27 22:00 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-28 14:49 ` david
2009-08-29 10:05 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 20:22 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-29 21:34 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-03 16:56 ` what fsck can (and can't) do was " david
2009-09-03 19:27 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-27 22:13 ` raid is dangerous but that's secret (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) Pavel Machek
2009-08-28 1:32 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-28 6:44 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-28 7:31 ` NeilBrown
2009-11-09 10:50 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-28 11:16 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-01 13:58 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-28 7:11 ` raid is dangerous but that's secret Florian Weimer
2009-08-28 7:23 ` NeilBrown
2009-08-28 12:08 ` raid is dangerous but that's secret (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) Theodore Tso
2009-08-30 7:51 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-30 9:01 ` Christian Kujau
2009-09-02 20:55 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-30 12:55 ` david
2009-08-30 14:12 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-30 14:44 ` Michael Tokarev
2009-08-30 16:10 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-30 16:35 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-31 13:15 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-31 13:16 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-31 13:19 ` Mark Lord
2009-08-31 13:21 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-31 15:14 ` jim owens
2009-09-03 1:59 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 11:12 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2009-09-03 11:18 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 13:34 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2009-09-03 13:50 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 13:59 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2009-09-03 14:15 ` wishful thinking about atomic, multi-sector or full MD stripe width, writes in storage Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 14:26 ` Florian Weimer
2009-09-03 15:09 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-03 23:50 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2009-09-04 0:39 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-04 21:21 ` Mark Lord
2009-09-04 21:29 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-05 12:57 ` Mark Lord
2009-09-05 13:40 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-09-05 21:43 ` NeilBrown
2009-09-07 11:45 ` Pavel Machek
2009-09-07 13:10 ` Theodore Tso
2010-04-04 13:47 ` fsck more often when powerfail is detected (was Re: wishful thinking about atomic, multi-sector or full MD stripe width, writes in storage) Pavel Machek
2010-04-04 17:39 ` tytso
2010-04-04 17:59 ` Rob Landley
2010-04-04 18:45 ` Pavel Machek
2010-04-04 19:35 ` tytso
2010-04-04 19:29 ` tytso
2010-04-04 23:58 ` Rob Landley
2009-09-03 14:35 ` raid is dangerous but that's secret (was Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible) david
2009-08-31 13:22 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-31 15:50 ` david
2009-08-31 16:21 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-31 18:31 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-31 19:11 ` david
2009-08-30 15:05 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-30 15:20 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-31 17:49 ` Jesse Brandeburg
2009-08-31 18:01 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-31 18:07 ` martin f krafft
2009-08-31 22:26 ` Jesse Brandeburg
2009-09-01 5:45 ` martin f krafft
2009-09-05 10:34 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:46 ` [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible david
2009-08-25 23:08 ` Neil Brown
2009-08-25 23:44 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 4:08 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-26 11:15 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-27 3:29 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-25 16:11 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-25 22:21 ` [patch] document flash/RAID dangers Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 22:33 ` david
2009-08-25 22:40 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 22:59 ` david
2009-08-25 23:37 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:48 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 0:06 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:12 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 0:20 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:26 ` david
2009-08-26 0:28 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 0:38 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:45 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 11:21 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 11:58 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 12:40 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-26 13:11 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 13:44 ` david
2009-08-26 13:40 ` Chris Adams [this message]
2009-08-26 13:47 ` Alan Cox
2009-08-26 14:11 ` Chris Adams
2009-08-27 21:50 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 9:38 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 4:24 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-26 11:22 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 14:45 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-29 9:39 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:56 ` david
2009-08-26 0:12 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:20 ` david
2009-08-26 0:39 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 1:17 ` david
2009-08-26 0:26 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 0:44 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 0:50 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-26 1:19 ` david
2009-08-26 11:25 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 12:37 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-30 6:49 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-26 4:20 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-25 22:27 ` [patch] document that ext2 can't handle barriers Pavel Machek
2009-08-27 3:34 ` [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible Rob Landley
2009-08-27 8:46 ` David Woodhouse
2009-08-28 14:46 ` david
2009-08-29 10:09 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 16:27 ` david
2009-08-29 21:33 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 13:57 ` Chris Adams
2009-08-25 22:58 ` Neil Brown
2009-08-25 23:10 ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-25 23:32 ` NeilBrown
2009-08-24 21:11 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-25 20:56 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-25 21:08 ` david
2009-08-25 18:52 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-25 14:43 ` Florian Weimer
2009-08-24 13:50 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-24 18:48 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 18:39 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-24 13:21 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-08-24 18:44 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 23:28 ` Neil Brown
2009-08-26 1:34 ` david
2009-08-24 21:11 ` Rob Landley
2009-08-24 21:33 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-25 18:45 ` Jan Kara
2009-03-16 12:30 ` Pavel Machek
2009-03-16 19:03 ` Theodore Tso
2009-03-23 18:23 ` Pavel Machek
2009-03-16 19:40 ` Sitsofe Wheeler
2009-03-16 21:43 ` Rob Landley
2009-03-17 4:55 ` Kyle Moffett
2009-03-23 11:00 ` Pavel Machek
2009-08-29 1:33 ` Robert Hancock
2009-08-29 13:04 ` Alan Cox
2009-03-16 19:45 ` Greg Freemyer
2009-03-16 21:48 ` Pavel Machek
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[not found] ` <clrhX-3R1-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcEc1-33Z-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcFUz-4yN-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcHtf-5XC-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcNSc-2DU-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcOl9-3aC-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcOOd-3qM-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dcOXN-3M5-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] <dddMw-7Xt-57@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <dddWc-83W-51@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddefx-5R-37@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddep7-bI-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddeyR-iy-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddeyR-iy-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddeIu-n9-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddeSb-th-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <ddoRI-11a-39@gated-at.bofh.it>
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