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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: x86@kernel.org, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@intel.com>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org>, Jiri Olsa <jolsa@redhat.com>,
	Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 3/3] x86/pti/64: Remove the SYSCALL64 entry trampoline
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:04:55 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180904070455.GX24124@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8c7c6e483612c3e4e10ca89495dc160b1aa66878.1536015544.git.luto@kernel.org>

On Mon, Sep 03, 2018 at 03:59:44PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> The SYSCALL64 trampoline has a couple of nice properties:
> 
>  - The usual sequence of SWAPGS followed by two GS-relative accesses to
>    set up RSP is somewhat slow because the GS-relative accesses need
>    to wait for SWAPGS to finish.  The trampoline approach allows
>    RIP-relative accesses to set up RSP, which avoids the stall.
> 
>  - The trampoline avoids any percpu access before CR3 is set up,
>    which means that no percpu memory needs to be mapped in the user
>    page tables.  This prevents using Meltdown to read any percpu memory
>    outside the cpu_entry_area and prevents using timing leaks
>    to directly locate the percpu areas.
> 
> The downsides of using a trampoline may outweigh the upsides, however.
> It adds an extra non-contiguous I$ cache line to system calls, and it
> forces an indirect jump to transfer control back to the normal kernel
> text after CR3 is set up.  The latter is because x86 lacks a 64-bit
> direct jump instruction that could jump from the trampoline to the entry
> text.  With retpolines enabled, the indirect jump is extremely slow.
> 
> This patch changes the code to map the percpu TSS into the user page
> tables to allow the non-trampoline SYSCALL64 path to work under PTI.
> This does not add a new direct information leak, since the TSS is
> readable by Meltdown from the cpu_entry_area alias regardless.  It
> does allow a timing attack to locate the percpu area, but KASLR is
> more or less a lost cause against local attack on CPUs vulnerable to
> Meltdown regardless.  As far as I'm concerned, on current hardware,
> KASLR is only useful to mitigate remote attacks that try to attack
> the kernel without first gaining RCE against a vulnerable user
> process.
> 
> On Skylake, with CONFIG_RETPOLINE=y and KPTI on, this reduces
> syscall overhead from ~237ns to ~228ns.
> 
> There is a possible alternative approach: we could instead move the
> trampoline within 2G of the entry text and make a separate copy for
> each CPU.  Then we could use a direct jump to rejoin the normal
> entry path.

Can we have a few words on why this solution and not this alternative? I
mean, you raise the possibility, but then surely you chose not to
implement that. Might as well share that with us.

  reply	other threads:[~2018-09-04  7:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 24+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-09-03 22:59 [PATCH v2 0/3] x86/pti: Get rid of entry trampolines and add some docs Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-03 22:59 ` [PATCH v2 1/3] x86/entry/64: Document idtentry Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-06  9:50   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-09-08  9:33   ` [tip:x86/pti] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-03 22:59 ` [PATCH v2 2/3] x86/entry/64: Use the TSS sp2 slot for SYSCALL/SYSRET scratch space Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-07  8:00   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-09-08  9:34   ` [tip:x86/pti] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-03 22:59 ` [PATCH v2 3/3] x86/pti/64: Remove the SYSCALL64 entry trampoline Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-04  7:04   ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2018-09-05 21:31     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-07 12:36       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-09-07 19:54       ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-08  0:04         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-09-08  4:32           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-08  6:36             ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-08  6:33           ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-07  9:35   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-09-07 16:40   ` Josh Poimboeuf
2018-09-08  4:35     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-08  9:35   ` [tip:x86/pti] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-08  9:57   ` tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-12 19:33   ` tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-12 19:36   ` tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2018-09-04  3:43 ` [PATCH v2 0/3] x86/pti: Get rid of entry trampolines and add some docs Linus Torvalds

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