From: Parth Shah <parth@linux.ibm.com>
To: Patrick Bellasi <patrick.bellasi@arm.com>,
Subhra Mazumdar <subhra.mazumdar@oracle.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@redhat.com,
tglx@linutronix.de, steven.sistare@oracle.com,
dhaval.giani@oracle.com, daniel.lezcano@linaro.org,
vincent.guittot@linaro.org, viresh.kumar@linaro.org,
tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com, mgorman@techsingularity.net
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/9] sched,cgroup: Add interface for latency-nice
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 18:01:19 +0530 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <242c8410-616c-51b2-7aad-4d92ac3a149f@linux.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87r24v2i14.fsf@arm.com>
On 9/5/19 3:15 PM, Patrick Bellasi wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2019 at 09:31:27 +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote...
>
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 10:49:36AM -0700, subhra mazumdar wrote:
>>> Add Cgroup interface for latency-nice. Each CPU Cgroup adds a new file
>>> "latency-nice" which is shared by all the threads in that Cgroup.
>>
>> *sigh*, no. We start with a normal per task attribute, and then later,
>> if it is needed and makes sense, we add it to cgroups.
>
> FWIW, to add on top of what Peter says, we used this same approach for
> uclamp and it proved to be a very effective way to come up with a good
> design. General principles have been:
>
> - a system wide API [1] (under /proc/sys/kernel/sched_*) defines
> default values for all tasks affected by that feature.
> This interface has to define also upper bounds for task specific
> values. Thus, in the case of latency-nice, it should be set by
> default to the MIN value, since that's the current mainline
> behaviour: all tasks are latency sensitive.
>
> - a per-task API [2] (via the sched_setattr() syscall) can be used to
> relax the system wide setting thus implementing a "nice" policy.
>
> - a per-taskgroup API [3] (via cpu controller's attributes) can be used
> to relax the system-wide settings and restrict the per-task API.
>
> The above features are worth to be added in that exact order.
>
>> Also, your Changelog fails on pretty much every point. It doesn't
>> explain why, it doesn't describe anything and so on.
>
> On the description side, I guess it's worth to mention somewhere to
> which scheduling classes this feature can be useful for. It's worth to
> mention that it can apply only to:
>
> - CFS tasks: for example, at wakeup time a task with an high
> latency-nice should avoid to preempt a low latency-nice task.
> Maybe by mapping the latency nice value into proper vruntime
> normalization value?
>
If I got this correct, does this also mean that a task's latency-nice
will be mapped to prio/nice.
i.e, task with min-latency-nice will have highest priority?
> - RT tasks: for example, at wakeup time a task with an high
> latency-nice value could avoid to preempt a CFS task.
>
So, will this make CFS task to precede RT task?
and cause priority inversion?
> I'm sure there will be discussion about some of these features, that's
> why it's important in the proposal presentation to keep a well defined
> distinction among the "mechanisms and API" and how we use the new
> concept to "bias" some scheduler policies.
>
>> From just reading the above, I would expect it to have the range
>> [-20,19] just like normal nice. Apparently this is not so.
>
> Regarding the range for the latency-nice values, I guess we have two
> options:
>
> - [-20..19], which makes it similar to priorities
> downside: we quite likely end up with a kernel space representation
> which does not match the user-space one, e.g. look at
> task_struct::prio.
>
> - [0..1024], which makes it more similar to a "percentage"
>
> Being latency-nice a new concept, we are not constrained by POSIX and
> IMHO the [0..1024] scale is a better fit.
>
> That will translate into:
>
> latency-nice=0 : default (current mainline) behaviour, all "biasing"
> policies are disabled and we wakeup up as fast as possible
>
> latency-nice=1024 : maximum niceness, where for example we can imaging
> to turn switch a CFS task to be SCHED_IDLE?
>
> Best,
> Patrick
>
> [1] commit e8f14172c6b1 ("sched/uclamp: Add system default clamps")
> [2] commit a509a7cd7974 ("sched/uclamp: Extend sched_setattr() to support utilization clamping")
> [3] 5 patches in today's tip/sched/core up to:
> commit babbe170e053 ("sched/uclamp: Update CPU's refcount on TG's clamp changes")
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-06 12:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-08-30 17:49 [RFC PATCH 0/9] Task latency-nice subhra mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 1/9] sched,cgroup: Add interface for latency-nice subhra mazumdar
2019-09-04 17:32 ` Tim Chen
2019-09-05 6:15 ` Parth Shah
2019-09-05 10:11 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-06 12:22 ` Parth Shah
2019-09-05 8:31 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 9:45 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 10:46 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 11:13 ` Qais Yousef
2019-09-05 11:30 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 11:40 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 11:48 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 13:32 ` Qais Yousef
2019-09-05 11:47 ` Qais Yousef
2020-04-16 0:02 ` Joel Fernandes
2020-04-16 17:23 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2020-04-18 16:01 ` Joel Fernandes
2020-04-20 11:26 ` Parth Shah
2020-04-20 19:14 ` Joel Fernandes
2020-04-20 11:47 ` Qais Yousef
2020-04-20 19:10 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-09-05 11:30 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 11:47 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 11:18 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 11:40 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 11:46 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 11:46 ` Valentin Schneider
2019-09-05 13:07 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 14:48 ` Valentin Schneider
2019-09-06 12:45 ` Parth Shah
2019-09-06 14:13 ` Valentin Schneider
2019-09-06 14:32 ` Vincent Guittot
2019-09-06 17:10 ` Parth Shah
2019-09-06 22:50 ` Valentin Schneider
2019-09-06 12:31 ` Parth Shah [this message]
2019-09-05 10:05 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 10:48 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 2/9] sched: add search limit as per latency-nice subhra mazumdar
2019-09-05 6:22 ` Parth Shah
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 3/9] sched: add sched feature to disable idle core search subhra mazumdar
2019-09-05 10:17 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-09-05 22:02 ` Subhra Mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 4/9] sched: SIS_CORE " subhra mazumdar
2019-09-05 10:19 ` Patrick Bellasi
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 5/9] sched: Define macro for number of CPUs in core subhra mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 6/9] x86/smpboot: Optimize cpumask_weight_sibling macro for x86 subhra mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 7/9] sched: search SMT before LLC domain subhra mazumdar
2019-09-05 9:31 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 20:40 ` Subhra Mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 8/9] sched: introduce per-cpu var next_cpu to track search limit subhra mazumdar
2019-08-30 17:49 ` [RFC PATCH 9/9] sched: rotate the cpu search window for better spread subhra mazumdar
2019-09-05 6:37 ` Parth Shah
2019-09-05 5:55 ` [RFC PATCH 0/9] Task latency-nice Parth Shah
2019-09-05 10:31 ` Patrick Bellasi
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