From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=195.121.94.186 ARC-Seal: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; t=1792963963; b=reChDM6y+eIbC3AFkmp5Kxbr62qR5/V+floH75fNTOYvPBsqzLH03LZnmkcon0upJH8F WrCzFd1m7NDzqteUj2lqi6nk7xKwcRBFqL6mw0z7OsU+W1YuETS9bPd/2A2iGVyAF2aTZ 063GzT1aCBJloQf7ToUeDQKXQmN2TgUMV0xEbEDOMsHK4zq2eqtmnLuEiwfLTyPMg+Y6S hgPQs516NgnlO2xningUHBjOyxgH4l+tnNQMA0O9BvvIHQL+sgcFA1sIl7r0d8XMHEGp/ H9id6Iw+WemhZopmwwhFktJam7FflJ+7ALlavfPmwp2K6R/zDEn5vJf4XgNIJiJmT+g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1792963963; h=DMARC-Filter:X-KPN-MessageId:Received:Received:DKIM-Signature: X-KPN-MID:X-CMASSUN:X-KPN-VerifiedSender:Received:Date:From:To:Cc: Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:Importance:X-Originating-IP; bh=5vuSnrcKwQeIRn0wbWhYdGvFkzDXojcWcGjlh6QDcMQ=; b=lEOqwpuUL7uzQKSNMn74uLXFlK0udutcuDo6Ft0JvNZj8eY4nVICZGw+XXr+m2a1JQ00 zSk4WLlVIBVefdO4N6CvgbPEUokMFjC6DUL1HkA2hYyf6KsYzCh1HvRCkgA2W+jV6bzW4 C/suXEkXekmKcUtGqvfZ6owis5E+eNSVyHJHHAiqyP3DdhsVJxrIAmF61CoBkJmnfgEcI GCIcRbIJm1tgdnJochA4pJiLzHSJ8oJEZ8GVhjtPnihpizrlZi99znKnfOS+ThJGcZB00 hDHuxy0cMkrofkj50ZeXXLk8VdhMOTFnT2fEq7NW0lInsbFDF8Y9rKH0c5orJDcdDRA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass header.from=xs4all.nl; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl; dkim=pass header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=xs4all01 header.b=H3Lyxcaz; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=195.121.94.186 Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl [195.121.94.186]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F63E606A31D for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 21:32:36 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 smtp.subspace.kernel.org 2F63E606A31D Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=xs4all01 header.b=H3Lyxcaz X-KPN-MessageId: 957011bd-d0bb-11f1-87e5-00505699b430 Received: from mta.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.161.190]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 957011bd-d0bb-11f1-87e5-00505699b430; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 22:32:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.128.135.189]) by mta.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTP id 956ec94e-d0bb-11f1-a8ab-0050569977a2; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 22:32:30 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=xs4all01; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date; bh=5vuSnrcKwQeIRn0wbWhYdGvFkzDXojcWcGjlh6QDcMQ=; b=H3LyxcazLjO3BsnaA/eVkplsL+87/CmawTLYkHaxYk/dFOV0AArOCWWmMM9siWMYX+QVYW4fXMdoz n+y1CYUr1kLJkx+afjXan79gwEP+f3Bm7qLWvdmwa/QDJr7qtNZPa3C5OF8NkySQjjmSyTr1pkuu60 fJWOZT8Lq4Yi+M90VWLg0k2yj9eZtQoe0R1V6XKXzSwLKHwt5LiEuzrDP3IganmEq4SrfeGHfVHWpn y07BfxOnHxLL9fTdYZcSjRwa8xmGSuRYdHeTh+IE9423XM8ZY4olu3EHPioZc8kgxs7Zff0hO3BNYE fn5gf0VyY/TowodKJaUzqb7pBjHgKFA== X-KPN-MID: 33|ewbb4jy8pZhqwJOE/4BRNgw3degIzkXnoW8litV1V+IUNVtk2goIwP9dd+dxvN0 3wsQCfDGArapfOl4Vp+ZnZEJ/n2ql7zr+sPIY5GEKWPU= X-CMASSUN: 33|sa/DoRaLLkvYyhWgxj8o6+RtIBFbDgoUcwEDZcjXQXI5rhTaWxTQKQX6mY0/ihE XcmKn7Ys1ssMhmsXjlSQamw== X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes Received: from cpxoxapps-mh03 (cpxoxapps-mh03.personalcloud.so.kpn.org [10.128.135.209]) by mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 9562e720-d0bb-11f1-90df-00505699eff2; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 22:32:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2026 22:32:30 +0100 (CET) From: Jori Koolstra To: "Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" , Laurent Pinchart , Greg Kroah-Hartman Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski , Sasha Levin , corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org, federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Justin Stitt , Carlos Maiolino , Jakub Kicinski , Brian Foster , Christoph Hellwig , David Disseldorp , Mark Brown , Jani Nikula , Linus Torvalds , Jens Axboe , "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" , Vlastimil Babka , "Christian Brauner (Amutable)" Message-ID: <345522644.2279143.1792963950889@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> In-Reply-To: References: <20261009083137.3-1-sashal@kernel.org> <0914a106-bacf-4d95-854a-bfeefbff62a4@kernel.org> <20261013123132.GC4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <20261013131243.GM56180@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <20261013173240.GK4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <20261020211532.GD15441@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > Op 23-10-2026 12:44 EDT schreef Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) : >=20 > Again, to me, it's just a scaling issue - nobody can read hundreds or > thousands of mails a day effectively, and maintainers and reviewers are > past capacity even now. >=20 > And agreed, we need talented young people coming up and it kills me that > they might be discouraged both by 'AI will take over so what's the point' > and the hordes of 'competing' people sending slop. >=20 There's a striking parallel with the mathematics community in this regard. They are dealing with a similar problem where the old way used to be you make a name for yourself by proving a hard theorem (Linux equivalent: you make a name for yourself with sweeping patchsets.) That does not really work as well anymore as a signal for competency (at least in maths): "Among the mathematicians I have spoken with, the prevailing sentiment is that this traditional mechanism of recognition has effectively collapsed in a matter of weeks. A strong mathematical result, by itself, can no longer be taken as convincing evidence of a student=E2=80=99s independent mathematical abilities."[1] > Perhaps there are ways and means of getting talented new people involved > via side-channel, though. >=20 > I did the 'eudyptula challenge' many years ago, which was a sort of boot > camp for kernel developers (with a lot of 'are you patient enough' bits := ) >=20 > That can't work in identical form anymore because of AI (sigh), but perha= ps > we can figure out some AI-proof version of this? >=20 Would it be worthwhile to organize some sort of informal discussion on what such channels might be and how they can be organized in an LLM-resistant fashion? It would be interesting and useful to share and collect ideas on how the talent pipeline should take shape in the LLM-era, so that the commu= nity can ensure, also in the future, that talented and motivated people are cont= inued to be brought in and not drowned out by slop or other unwanted hurdles, suc= h as having access to very expensive tooling (a concern that I share with Lauren= t.) You and Ted have views on this; Shuah runs the kernel mentorship program; a= nd I know Greg also helps people get exposed to the kernel through various means. The= n there's GSoC and Outreachy, etc. I guess a lot of these people will be at LSFMMBPF? Best, Jori. [1]: https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2026/10/18/will-it-be-a-golden-age-or-a= -dark-age-for-mathematics-and-science/#more-18496