From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl [195.121.94.184]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 201934F68BD for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 12:51:33 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791895895; cv=none; b=iIX4Mg2/CtDIQ7OVyEME3mQfiABw+WgxMZgmGzDxm9nAF1GgTkYLoAJjiHW4iCo38vSFAtpxSRw7tS+PF0ZsMhQkF5gEYjK2CN3XhElsJ0T/qZmRzW2GkhzeC5TtV3yDL0HmCWUi5kbBw4ILyQ9eNsmKKyCIGt04W+cLVBybVUo= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791895895; c=relaxed/simple; bh=46TQsVYY1GtoBPuMPUF/LXOW/imQRBFLnJEO1nH6ETU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ryuP8gvujCNtXmBJdB61xUDZKpg6k5+KmaSNGP9vXyMDwSDUha1w8jOqsGkEcFXIS2B50PuXpL42SCW4O1fN/m9ZM42RRMb+6QnfTfy/9Ly0s4kPtDGdOPgeFVmN3R3DXxfFq9S4KpvtszF3TwFvjJE4p1H04XWpdQGZcGr+84s= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b=tJC9UaDt; arc=none smtp.client-ip=195.121.94.184 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xs4all.nl Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl header.i=@xs4all.nl header.b="tJC9UaDt" X-KPN-MessageId: a6f91dd4-c704-11f1-a5a4-005056994fde Received: from mta.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.161.189]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id a6f91dd4-c704-11f1-a5a4-005056994fde; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:50:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.128.135.190]) by mta.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTP id a6f64b1b-c704-11f1-a0c5-0050569981f5; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:50:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=xs4all01; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date; bh=e7bAULIOthl2bJgXVMyo9UFqPnpNyyHYitYw9irJUN4=; b=tJC9UaDtO/IRj5wB7eCEvhH+bGXl4AqkFvmnZTkpr2Kq2rDIHV5Gb9MbYMcsaKdvyStrjSCn6S6uE XaPlhgrs1/3PWwV3cxEOG/QUVw5NghdAKKPkM8OSXU+JIPmTDSR9Yuvi55GkcKIY0jkyfuMYa+A7x+ KNRLAAt02/JCrbdfqeNBe420OWruC6aaIviqgHD24fvqUhCbp/rw+jusqjWD++MpfR7FTYmxBy9oUa ijkgeQqogP2ie2mFiDOVvCSZccXYfTxuytNASpy+AI8GE9hInK4uhnAsohCKfpbna7u6g0430TMcB8 yU4DBzji155DSFV7JjmDB4fzuJq28/g== X-KPN-MID: 33|8N1gRlhHZkaZTTCT3xDz94/on8A3bynP1dd7ahrML2O2JQ7IZ4w9k14rz1i0gyE TwKQIv6T/R9VLR4SbkbIXJSE8sDhvDElqSL02rGY399o= X-CMASSUN: 33|BuwFCznQeDudkeR63GrOr8k1TKzbTO6RPVAN0TnAY1XLul7HwrZEOKXXnEYZT+P Bt8JnM07HNZp99f76AN1lwg== X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes Received: from cpxoxapps-mh05 (cpxoxapps-mh05.personalcloud.so.kpn.org [10.128.135.211]) by mtaoutbound.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a6e9e19d-c704-11f1-916a-005056995d6c; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:50:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Jori Koolstra To: Laurent Pinchart Cc: "Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" , Linus Torvalds , Sasha Levin , Greg Kroah-Hartman , corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org, federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Krzysztof Kozlowski , Justin Stitt , Carlos Maiolino , Jakub Kicinski , Brian Foster , Christoph Hellwig , David Disseldorp , Mark Brown , Jani Nikula , Jens Axboe , "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" , Vlastimil Babka , "Christian Brauner (Amutable)" Message-ID: <353766590.785601.1791895821929@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> In-Reply-To: <20261013123853.GD4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> References: <20261009083137.3-1-sashal@kernel.org> <0914a106-bacf-4d95-854a-bfeefbff62a4@kernel.org> <1716819121.765615.1791890380179@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> <20261013123853.GD4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > Op 13-10-2026 14:38 CEST schreef Laurent Pinchart : > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2026 at 01:19:40PM +0200, Jori Koolstra wrote: > > > Op 12-10-2026 17:42 CEST schreef Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) : > > > > > > +cc the participants from that thread FYI. The original patch is at [2]. > > > > Thanks, Lorenzo. > > > > > On Fri, Oct 09, 2026 at 12:05:06PM +0200, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: > > > > On 09/10/2026 10:31, Sasha Levin wrote: > > > > > The Maintainers Summit reached consensus to deprecate the Assisted-by > > > > > tag. Remove the documentation requiring it. > > > > > > > > Please provide here some sort of arguments used in that summit > > > > consensus/discussion. This basically reverts/changes previous consensus > > > > [1], which is fine itself, but it lacks reasoning. > > > > > > > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/workflows/2026070224-unholy-commode-cf45@gregkh/ > > > > > > Thanks for linking that! It is important to ack previous discussion on > > > this. Also LWN article is up now at [3]. > > > > > > I'm less bothered than you might think by this change. > > > > > > The tag's useful for push back on review, but the only long-term strategy for > > > slop is to aggressively ignore it. > > > > > > Linus has made that clear that that's fine. > > > > > > What kills the project is having 1,000 slop submissions that 2 or 3 people have > > > to do something with. > > > > > > The only long-term solution to that is to hit mark read 1,000 times :) > > > > There's a way to nuke drive-by authors and that is to require them to do > > some kind of "proof-of-effort." So you want to contribute to the kernel? > > Good, come to one of the OSS conferences, or LPC, or have some well-known > > maintainer vouch for you, or do the kernel mentorship program. The point > > is not that this cannot be gamed, but that the "gaming" in itself requires > > some kind of investment, like proof-of-work. > > > > We may miss the savant that for whatever reason cannot show up to a conference, > > We'll miss all the contributors who started small and put time and > effort in learning. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the people on > the CC list, and it certainly includes myself. Making it much more > difficult for true hackers to contribute to the kernel, including by > requiring paying for travel to conferences, is the kind of policy that > would make me stop contributing to the kernel. > But you were there at LPC! Sorry, was planning to go to your talk, but couldn't :( . Would have loved to chat with you. I doubt how many people are like this. You have to contribute A LOT of time to get to a meaningful level of understanding of even just one subsystem, even with LLM support. I know some people don't travel, but I didn't suggest that conference attendance should be the only avenue to participate. > > but Linux Foundation is already very supportive of funding people. > > How many people with very little history of kernel contributions has the > LF funded ? > Well, me, for instance :) Best, Jori.