From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:45:02 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:44:52 -0400 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:9223 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:44:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:45:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org The latest version is always available at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/ Release 1.1.1: Sat Apr 14 23:41:34 EDT 2001 * Synchronized with 2.4.4-pre1. * Adam Lackorzynski's patch to make install-cml2 do the right thing with relative installation paths. * The old menuconfig shortcut that 'm' in a boolean entry field sets 'y' is now implemented. * Simplified color scheme. * Added fast-mode command to suppress side-effect computation on slow machines. I'd appreciate it if some of you with slow machines would try running with fast mode on and seeing if that addresses the sluggishness. -- Eric S. Raymond Never could an increase of comfort or security be a sufficient good to be bought at the price of liberty. -- Hillaire Belloc From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:53:12 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:53:02 -0400 Received: from panic.ohr.gatech.edu ([130.207.47.194]:15308 "HELO havoc.gtf.org") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:52:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3AD91B0E.8EAF5049@mandrakesoft.com> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 23:52:46 -0400 From: Jeff Garzik Organization: MandrakeSoft X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.4-pre3 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eric S. Raymond" Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org "Eric S. Raymond" wrote: > Release 1.1.1: Sat Apr 14 23:41:34 EDT 2001 > * Synchronized with 2.4.4-pre1. pre3 is out ;-) > * Added fast-mode command to suppress side-effect computation > on slow machines. > > I'd appreciate it if some of you with slow machines would try running > with fast mode on and seeing if that addresses the sluggishness. I assume that, eventually there will be no slow mode or fast mode distinction... just a single fast mode. Right? :) -- Jeff Garzik | "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a Building 1024 | man to fish, and a US Navy submarine will make sure MandrakeSoft | he's never hungry again." -- Chris Neufeld From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 06:40:07 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 06:39:57 -0400 Received: from draco.cus.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.18]:731 "EHLO draco.cus.cam.ac.uk") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 06:39:44 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010415112829.00b11ec0@pop.cus.cam.ac.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 11:41:36 +0100 To: "Eric S. Raymond" From: Anton Altaparmakov Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org At 04:45 15/04/2001, Eric S. Raymond wrote: >Release 1.1.1: Sat Apr 14 23:41:34 EDT 2001 > * The old menuconfig shortcut that 'm' in a boolean entry field > sets 'y' is now implemented. > * Simplified color scheme. Much better now! make xconfig still seems to be the old way (hadn't tried it before)? - At least I get two shades of green. The lighter one is completely unreadable on the silver background. Could I suggest to get rid of the light/dark green distinction altogether, do it like the new menuconfig colors, they are much improved now. - Also removing the N and replacing M by m has improved readability by a long way. (-: > * Added fast-mode command to suppress side-effect computation > on slow machines. > >I'd appreciate it if some of you with slow machines would try running >with fast mode on and seeing if that addresses the sluggishness. On my Pentium 133S with fastmode I get a more than 2 fold increase in speed and it feels a lot more usable. Still have to wait between key presses but it is better than before. I also tried this on a Dual Celeron 450. Speed is fine but you can still feel that something is happening in between the key press and it taking effect. fastmode doesn't make much difference that I could feel there. One general note: scrolling between entries (up/down arrow) seems slower than it should be. It is noticeable when you want to scroll several entries at once and hit an arrow key quickly several times in succession. Perhaps the action taken after reaching an entry could be delayed until the next key press and only then when it is not one of the move to next/prev option ones? That should make moving up/down instantaneous like in the old (cml1) menuconfig. But then I have no idea how cml2 works so maybe my suggestion is bogus... Keep up the good work. You are on the right track. (-: Best regards, Anton -- Anton Altaparmakov (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer / WWW: http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-ntfs/ ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:07:00 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:06:51 -0400 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:40713 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:06:36 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:05:46 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Jeff Garzik Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode Message-ID: <20010415080546.A25777@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Jeff Garzik , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> <3AD91B0E.8EAF5049@mandrakesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3AD91B0E.8EAF5049@mandrakesoft.com>; from jgarzik@mandrakesoft.com on Sat, Apr 14, 2001 at 11:52:46PM -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Jeff Garzik : > I assume that, eventually there will be no slow mode or fast mode > distinction... just a single fast mode. Right? :) That's an interesting question to which I do not yet know the answer. I am continuing to speed-tune. -- Eric S. Raymond The Constitution is not neutral. It was designed to take the government off the backs of the people. -- Justice William O. Douglas From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:03:30 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:03:21 -0400 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:53769 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:03:13 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:04:30 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Anton Altaparmakov Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode Message-ID: <20010415120430.A29710@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Anton Altaparmakov , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010415112829.00b11ec0@pop.cus.cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010415112829.00b11ec0@pop.cus.cam.ac.uk>; from aia21@cam.ac.uk on Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 11:41:36AM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Anton Altaparmakov : > Much better now! make xconfig still seems to be the old way (hadn't tried > it before)? - At least I get two shades of green. The lighter one is > completely unreadable on the silver background. Could I suggest to get rid > of the light/dark green distinction altogether, do it like the new > menuconfig colors, they are much improved now. Yeah, that was a typo. It will work this way in 1.1.2. > On my Pentium 133S with fastmode I get a more than 2 fold increase in speed > and it feels a lot more usable. Still have to wait between key presses but > it is better than before. Uh oh. If you still have to wait I'd better make fastmode disable more stuff :-(. > One general note: scrolling between entries (up/down arrow) seems slower > than it should be. That should be fixed now. I found a way to recode menuconfig's screen refresh that will be faster and eliminate the screen flicker. > Keep up the good work. You are on the right track. (-: Thanks! -- Eric S. Raymond "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." -- Thomas Jefferson From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:33:35 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:33:26 -0400 Received: from quechua.inka.de ([212.227.14.2]:27660 "EHLO mail.inka.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:33:13 -0400 To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> <3AD91B0E.8EAF5049@mandrakesoft.com> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:55:17 +0200 From: Olaf Titz Message-Id: Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org [Warning: historical reference ahead.] > > I'd appreciate it if some of you with slow machines would try running > > with fast mode on and seeing if that addresses the sluggishness. > > I assume that, eventually there will be no slow mode or fast mode > distinction... just a single fast mode. Right? :) Perhaps not, if fast mode won't display on the screen while running, or such things... ;-) Olaf From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:15:43 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:15:34 -0400 Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu ([129.63.8.2]:7430 "EHLO saturn.cs.uml.edu") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:15:23 -0400 From: "Albert D. Cahalan" Message-Id: <200104160615.f3G6FHf418941@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode To: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> from "Eric S. Raymond" at Apr 14, 2001 11:45:59 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > * Added fast-mode command to suppress side-effect computation > on slow machines. You could put the computation in a low-priority thread, so that it still gets done but doesn't mess up responsiveness. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:24:56 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:24:36 -0400 Received: from snark.tuxedo.org ([207.106.50.26]:45834 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:24:33 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:25:47 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2 1.1.1, wiuth experimental fast mode Message-ID: <20010416022547.A9524@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , "Albert D. Cahalan" , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200104150345.f3F3jxG16241@snark.thyrsus.com> <200104160615.f3G6FHf418941@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200104160615.f3G6FHf418941@saturn.cs.uml.edu>; from acahalan@cs.uml.edu on Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 02:15:17AM -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Albert D. Cahalan : > > * Added fast-mode command to suppress side-effect computation > > on slow machines. > > You could put the computation in a low-priority thread, so that it > still gets done but doesn't mess up responsiveness. Yes, I've thought about doing exactly this. It's a huge nasty can of worms, though, because it would mean that the side effects from setting a symbol could manifest some unpredictable amount of time after they were triggered. And what if the user has taken actions that set variables during that window? What if the side-effects conflict? Clearly, that way lies madness. I think my effort would be better spent speed-tuning the deduction algorithms so fastmode can go away. -- Eric S. Raymond The men and women who founded our country knew, by experience, that there are times when the free person's answer to oppressive government has to be delivered with a bullet. Thus, the right to bear arms is not just *a* freedom; it's the mother of all freedoms. Don't let them disarm you!