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From: Helge Hafting <helgehaf@aitel.hist.no>
To: Patrick E Kane <kane@urbana.css.mot.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Stack growing and buffer overflows
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:07:03 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3E6DB547.4060300@aitel.hist.no> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030310172935.A1324@scapula.urbana.css.mot.com>

Patrick E Kane wrote:

> I like the idea of turning off execute permission on the stack pages.

It has been shown before that this has these disadvantages:
1. More work settting up those access bits   (bloat & perf. degradation)
2. Some programs actually need an exec stack (loss of features)
3. It don't buy you _any_ security at all!   (didn't help anyway)

About (3): Of course it stops some of the current exploits, but there is
a trivial way to "enhance" stack-smashing exploits to work around the
non-exec stack:

You can still overwrite the function's return address, on that non-exec 
stack.  The cracker can no longer upload code and make the function 
return to that, but crackers don't need to!  All they need is to return 
to a place containing exec("/bin/sh") *and such places exist*, 
paritcularly in every program using libc.  So writing the the exploit
becomes a little harder, using it is as trivial as ever.

Spend the time fixing broken apps, or get them right from the start.  It 
is not as if writing safe C is _hard_.

Helge Hafting



  reply	other threads:[~2003-03-11  9:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-03-10 23:00 Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-03-10 23:29 ` Patrick E Kane
2003-03-11 10:07   ` Helge Hafting [this message]
2003-03-11 12:23 ` =?unknown-8bit?Q?J=F6rn?= Engel

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