From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0CA7329E6C; Tue, 25 Aug 2026 17:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1787680112; cv=none; b=qS4PTDUHJo21WZU7qIw2hiDcXWCu2xKE6eNpEN13CIh3dWK2CzY/kGuUkhCbzYpr79nSGfocq+9WHgTvJr6lI+kmn8azs9BjytSZxxt1S+Fvtbzz61KiUyEZCpvilG/quQEz2JFmhgYZLEgi3hxdZEB1OapwmZvwWrdlkZcCZU0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1787680112; c=relaxed/simple; bh=gKhRcH8/zOHsMhDb0bkW9vwzHbEejifYu2mBO5mK67Y=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=XDyQWL//6Xy2b/C/ps80V/FDUQ7hyayKTqWLL+IdXOMtINwBR9oPQQSYjLgt+1/tUP/6HsKJMVRLN4urpqDmyhoLx1dwdrA2LruN5BpCmNEalMcicoOzYp9Fk6h28pHJepr3mKd5zjvIe8kkI4qgHikTEHD/SUQLmQISl/x4PvA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=L5Q4zaUi; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="L5Q4zaUi" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=gKhRcH8/zOHsMhDb0bkW9vwzHbEejifYu2mBO5mK67Y=; b=L5Q4zaUiPQJhn8gE93U7Gw2SfD ST2JQSax/a2vR13kbQ9vXMMpa09liackC2gl5htjJUy2P7QOC3xc9lPNMJZZKT9L/dr4NaOXOVzN6 uJvSE8A960eDX/W7bhXTijGKzk1cKdW+r1UsrQ9oODWf3fYZih1d5a0HKr8XaiwkB8THOAG4cNcEp F0nXH0gtRe6+fnShSTxgHYo6Ncxqc3wq1m2ftgDC+B+2GgLPTPDM7sdrQPXLcCa0HrXhE0BevSb6n SirpHu8UqU4nU/JLO56vM+jA+AHLDM7Qs1v6y+aEJiBzh8kM8cq7s+gHeb0/V8R+ETkFHQ+tveld8 BZrVAnUQ==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:faaa:2547:1b33:7d6f] (helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1wyvFy-00000009Tm6-3XXg; Tue, 25 Aug 2026 17:48:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3d0463b6099d4fcde9a025a2f9e231d75303b61c.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm/mmu_notifier: Remove non_block_start/end() from notifier invocation From: David Woodhouse To: paulmck@kernel.org Cc: Sean Christopherson , Jason Gunthorpe , Michal Hocko , Steven Rostedt , Andrew Morton , David Hildenbrand , Lorenzo Stoakes , "Liam R. Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Sebastian Andrzej Siewior , Clark Williams , Simona Vetter , Jerome Glisse , Christian Koenig , Paolo Bonzini , linux-mm@kvack.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rt-devel@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2026 18:48:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <9427a8e0-3ba6-4f31-a35d-54429bd7e071@paulmck-laptop> References: <333c4cdb-8f34-4e3f-a47f-961f47e089a0@paulmck-laptop> <11dcf5a87125451897982f728c1f65a5151987e4.camel@infradead.org> <69567965-48fd-48c5-abb6-0699d7f5bd16@paulmck-laptop> <124af87fb49c267eeb26b8b4d952b9b1a5b3fb68.camel@infradead.org> <9427a8e0-3ba6-4f31-a35d-54429bd7e071@paulmck-laptop> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-O9T1Ji1KmcFhldanfMN+" User-Agent: Evolution 3.60.3-0ubuntu1~ppa9~24.04 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-O9T1Ji1KmcFhldanfMN+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2026-08-25 at 10:19 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 06:05:54PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Tue, 2026-08-25 at 09:47 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > >=20 > > > On the tail latencies... > > >=20 > > > The easiest way to reduce them is to require that preemption be disab= led > > > across srcu_read_lock_atomic()/srcu_read_unlock_atomic() regions and > > > across all calls to synchronize_srcu_atomic().=C2=A0 Without that, th= e problem > > > is that the scheduler does not know that the spinning is pointless, > > > and we cannot use the blocking primitives that we could otherwise use > > > to tell it what is going on. > > >=20 > > > So, is it feasible to simply require preemption be disabled as called > > > out above? > >=20 > > I'd experimented with disabling it around the GP driver loop in > > synchronize_srcu_atomic() as seen in > > https://git.infradead.org/?p=3Dusers/dwmw2/linux.git;a=3Dcommitdiff;h= =3D07165e79340e > > and that didn't seem to change anything (which seems reasonable, as > > it's the *waiters* that were descheduled, not the threads driving the > > actual GP). So your suggestion that we do it around the whole function > > certainly makes sense too. I'll test it. > >=20 > > I do wonder if we're really doing the right thing here by selfishly > > blocking preemption because we want a specific tail latency to remain > > low in a contended system. Maybe we should allow preemption and trust > > that the right thing will happen? Maybe the p100 isn't the right > > benchmark to be chasing... I'm looking at it because Sean expressed > > concerns about it, but it's not the only consideration. >=20 > My concern is algorithmic, not benchmark optimization. >=20 > Suppose that there is only one CPU, or, alternatively, that one of the > atomic SRCU readers is pinned to the same CPU occupied by the (higher > priority) task running synchronize_srcu_atomic().=C2=A0 In this case, the > call to synchronize_srcu_atomic() uselessly burns CPU time until its > priority decays, real-time throttling kicks in, or in some configurations= , > maybe never. I certainly have no problem with a blanket preempt_disable() around both sides for algorithmic reasons. As long as we aren't *just* doing it for the selfish reasons I described.=20 > Requiring preemption be disabled across both the atomic SRCU readers > and the synchronize_srcu_atomic() avoids this, at least when running on > bare metal.=C2=A0 My (perhaps naive) hope is that guest OSes get some use > out of those cpu_relax() calls. Yeah, an overcommited guest vCPU should be able to get preempted there by the hypervisor, allowing other vCPUs to run. --=-O9T1Ji1KmcFhldanfMN+ Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCE8Ew ggWvMIIEl6ADAgECAhANkOKMSmGXhF5eMl0rsRhvMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBHMjAeFw0yNDAzMTMwMDAwMDBaFw0zNDAz MTIyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5EaWdpQ2VydCwgSW5jLjE6MDgGA1UE AxMxRGlnaUNlcnQgQXNzdXJlZCBHMiBTTUlNRSBSU0E0MDk2IFNIQTM4NCAyMDI0IENBMTCCAiIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAOfSIeC0vv1xPQ+dgSxbIIrkaru6skAWJYaGFzmv q4Kq+2wU2jxhcWlJg/JeP5jEkq/LM3pn5aaLao79j+XRmS7J1ZpJKUODJVoM4s9MQJhTMvo4qS5Z S64g6QR7Obkz3I1Lr3aWeSBmDDEyzue+NKtuWZ1Cxy3RdXo/w5HgRc3l2AercOM3Gt1XonTzEtTb 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