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From: Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>
To: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Cc: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 24/26] docs: reporting-bugs: explain why users might get neither reply nor fix
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 21:03:09 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3f495f9f-7daf-861f-6c84-e28eb91e7a4e@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aac1d02c1ca7d4a20dfe47ae6f824e1091c654e3.1601541165.git.linux@leemhuis.info>

On 10/1/20 1:50 AM, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> Not even getting a reply after one invested quite a bit of time with
> preparing and writing a report can be quite devastating. But when it
> comes to Linux, this can easily happen for good or bad reasons. Hence,
> use this opportunity to explain why this might happen, hopefully some
> people then will be less disappointed if it happens.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>
> ---
>  Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-bugs.rst | 56 ++++++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 56 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-bugs.rst b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-bugs.rst
> index 340fa44b352c..8f60af27635b 100644
> --- a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-bugs.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-bugs.rst
> @@ -1402,6 +1402,62 @@ for the subsystem as well as the stable mailing list the `MAINTAINERS file
>  mention in the section "STABLE BRANCH".
>  
>  
> +Why some issues won't get any reaction or remain unfixed after being reported
> +=============================================================================
> +
> +When reporting a problem to the Linux developers, be aware only 'issues of high
> +priority' (regression, security issue, severe problems) are definitely going to
> +get resolved. The maintainers or if all else fails Linus Torvalds himself will
> +make sure of that. They and the other kernel developers will fix a lot of other
> +issues as well. But be aware that sometimes they can't or won't help; and
> +sometimes there isn't even anyone to send a report to.
> +
> +This is best explained with kernel developers that contribute to the Linux
> +kernel in their spare time. Quite a few of the drivers in the kernel were
> +written by such programmers, often because they simply wanted to make their
> +hardware usable on their favorite operating system.
> +
> +These programmers most of the time will happily fix problems other people
> +report. But nobody can force them to do, as they are contributing voluntarily.
> +
> +Then there are situations where such developers really want to fix an issue,
> +but can't: they lack hardware programming documentation to do so. This often
> +happens when the publicly available docs are superficial or the driver was
> +written with the help of reverse engineering.
> +
> +Sooner or later spare time developers will also stop caring for the driver.
> +Maybe their test hardware broke, got replaced by something more fancy, or is so
> +old that it's something you don't find much outside of computer museums
> +anymore. Or the developer stops caring for their code and Linux at all, as
> +something different in their life became way more important. Sometimes nobody
> +is willing to take over the job as maintainer – and nobody can be forced to, as
> +contributing to the Linux kernel is done on a voluntary basis. Abandoned
> +drivers nevertheless remain in the kernel: they are still useful for people and
> +removing would be a regression.
> +
> +The situation is not that different with developers that are paid for their
> +work on the Linux kernel. Those contribute most changes these days. But their
> +employers sooner or later also stop caring for some code and make its programmer
> +focus on other thing. Hardware vendors for example earn their money mainly by

         on other things.

> +selling new hardware; quite a few of them hence are not investing much time and
> +energy in maintaining a Linux kernel driver for something they sold years ago.
> +Enterprise Linux distributors often care for a longer time period, but in new
> +version often leave support for old and rare hardware aside to limit the scope.
> +Often spare time contributors take over once a company leaves some orphan some

                                                                  drop last: some

> +code, but as mentioned above: sooner or later will leave the code behind, too.

                                           later they will leave the code behind, too.

> +
> +Priorities are another reason why some issues are not fixed, as maintainers
> +quite often are forced to set those, as time to work on Linux is limited. That's
> +true for spare time or the time employers grant their developers to spend on
> +maintenance work on the upstream kernel. Sometimes maintainers also get
> +overwhelmed with reports, even if a driver is working nearly perfectly. To not
> +get completely stuck, the programmer thus might have no other choice then to

                                                                        than to

> +prioritize issue reports and reject some of them.
> +
> +But don't worry too much about all of this, a lot of drivers have active
> +maintainers who are quite interested in fixing as many issues as possible.
> +
> +
>  .. ############################################################################
>  .. Temporary marker added while this document is rewritten. Sections above
>  .. are new and dual-licensed under GPLv2+ and CC-BY 4.0, those below are old.
> 


-- 
~Randy


  reply	other threads:[~2020-10-04  4:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-10-01  8:39 [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] Make reporting-bugs easier to grasp and yet more detailed Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 01/26] docs: reporting-bugs: temporary markers for licensing and diff reasons Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 02/26] docs: reporting-bugs: Create a TLDR how to report issues Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02  2:32   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  7:27     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-11 15:24       ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-12  3:33         ` Randy Dunlap
2020-11-12  4:56           ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 03/26] docs: reporting-bugs: step-by-step guide on " Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02  3:02   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  8:05     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 04/26] docs: reporting-bugs: step-by-step guide for issues in stable & longterm Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02  3:25   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  8:24     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 05/26] docs: reporting-bugs: begin reference section providing details Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 16:49   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  8:27     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 06/26] docs: reporting-bugs: point out we only care about fresh vanilla kernels Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 07/26] docs: reporting-bugs: let users classify their issue Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 16:59   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  9:42     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 08/26] docs: reporting-bugs: make readers check the taint flag Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:08   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  9:56     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-03 17:47       ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 09/26] docs: reporting-bugs: help users find the proper place for their report Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-04  4:03   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-07 12:05     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 10/26] docs: reporting-bugs: remind people to look for existing reports Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:17   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  9:58     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 11/26] docs: reporting-bugs: remind people to back up their data Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 12/26] docs: reporting-bugs: tell users to disable DKMS et al Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:28   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03  9:59     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 13/26] docs: reporting-bugs: point out the environment might be causing issue Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:32   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03 10:00     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 14/26] docs: reporting-bugs: make users write notes, one for each issue Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:35   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03 10:01     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 15/26] docs: reporting-bugs: make readers test mainline, but leave a loophole Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-02 17:51   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-03 10:11     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-11 15:36       ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-12  3:42         ` Randy Dunlap
2020-11-12  5:22           ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 16/26] docs: reporting-bugs: let users check taint status again Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 17/26] docs: reporting-bugs: explain options if reproducing on mainline fails Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 18/26] docs: reporting-bugs: let users optimize their notes Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 19/26] docs: reporting-bugs: decode failure messages [need help] Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 20/26] docs: reporting-bugs: instructions for handling regressions Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-04  4:03   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-04  6:31     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:39 ` [RFC PATCH v1 21/26] docs: reporting-bugs: details on writing and sending the report Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-09  2:45   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-09  7:38     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:50 ` [RFC PATCH v1 22/26] docs: reporting-bugs: explain what users should do once the report got out Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-09 17:37   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-11 13:29     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-11 15:06       ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-01  8:50 ` [RFC PATCH v1 23/26] docs: reporting-bugs: details for issues specific to stable and longterm Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-09 18:42   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-11 13:29     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:50 ` [RFC PATCH v1 24/26] docs: reporting-bugs: explain why users might get neither reply nor fix Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-04  4:03   ` Randy Dunlap [this message]
2020-10-04  6:35     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:50 ` [RFC PATCH v1 25/26] docs: reporting-bugs: explain things could be easier Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-04  4:03   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-04  6:36     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-10-01  8:50 ` [RFC PATCH v1 26/26] docs: reporting-bugs: add SPDX tag and license hint, remove markers Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-09 11:01 ` [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] Make reporting-bugs easier to grasp and yet more detailed Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-09 18:21   ` Jonathan Corbet
2020-11-10 12:01     ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2020-11-10  3:23   ` Randy Dunlap

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