From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0F414EE868; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 09:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791970721; cv=none; b=K39TI83rGQi6uKdF02eabNPzGQGcnIOo/ucD213hT+6aOg9kJrTqXPqbxvzcPOWjhHwv+1i7c0a12aVxRtqDqC4BOOZuB0q9obJU2bU3PGEKd+THD+TtoAqC/a/Lzq1B7docXDsluZFNW93YEmvvbVbBo5aZMFNz2nueUQEk0Qk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791970721; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Orr1eejeO89Nh22kDEJEr0VMRN0HlXrWxdsaqeLnGMI=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:in-reply-to:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=KpgZN2C82XXNOgDLVe9TdEH0u0rZwkBsMBF0EO6O2qAIbZqxQt6OSCglAqs5hQ+dvJ/S6wbsKndk8VJmXkkpjfVTssV6+GDwBmfYqMUot5i6NsFiO5FwJsqaL2N5/4wi9hu/zoD7sL2Vor30G48e65Tzv3Dp/nJLKPW9azaKH88= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=Tb9NNRWk; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="Tb9NNRWk" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:in-reply-to: Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:References; bh=G9WavGOV+M27AHCktqdjmTFqaEVQIg+eVMixpUoHzZU=; b=Tb9NNRWkCbbvhMvIHFAxUgeqaj SElv3u1R5s28qMRtUdyTFMuVhwC1FfrW7tzw2LvUXmd4Gn7Bu+uipHusGoliMHdmD1BagBfjpvuCY bTkU6OjGZqpX+LNIvktnMju9dVWH+nmIwlvTf916xRqCcgijdxrQciyS/0flB3TG8wVe9UgFM/Vv3 f8ed/HcB5L6FHTEKcvlMC7aaKGdZHXZxPxqJsZMtCVQcAP5ySCi6JVV0h/fYzng6m9e4OFrQHLfvH nM5C/8pc7A2npMAGdhwXN3ZawmVjf1mulG29X1bfVv7VmynFZWkPxynpsW+CcQmPUvThncjUBeUeq 4HM4BM3w==; Received: from 54-240-197-227.amazon.com ([54.240.197.227] helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.99.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1xGvQv-00000002Osq-1vv5; Wed, 14 Oct 2026 09:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: <41e273ce759f35ae18af394a072d5b81ed47ebc6.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/9] mm: Memory providers for guest_memfd and iommufd From: David Woodhouse To: Ackerley Tng Cc: Fred Griffoul , Paolo Bonzini , Sean Christopherson , Marc Zyngier , Oliver Upton , Andrew Morton , David Hildenbrand , Alexander Viro , Christian Brauner , Jan Kara , Jason Gunthorpe , Kevin Tian , Joerg Roedel , Will Deacon , Robin Murphy , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , Dave Hansen , x86@kernel.org, "H . Peter Anvin" , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , Lorenzo Stoakes , "Liam R . Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Michal Hocko , Joey Gouly , Suzuki K Poulose , Zenghui Yu , Steffen Eiden , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, iommu@lists.linux.dev, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, aik@amd.com, jacob.pan@linux.microsoft.com, gourry@gourry.net, vannapurve@google.com, fvdl@google.com, tabba@google.com, dave.jiang@intel.com, aneesh.kumar@kernel.org Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2026 10:37:58 +0100 in-reply-to: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-QY2QZkBPV5msUx0Wk8s2" User-Agent: Evolution 3.62.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1~24.04 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-QY2QZkBPV5msUx0Wk8s2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > In my proposal, I agree with you completely that the provider must be > allowed to revoke memory. Using the sample in this RFC, gmem_fd_ioctl() > called with !GMEM_PROVIDER_SET_PRESENT is where the provider wants to > revoke memory, and the revocation in my model would look like > > [PROVIDER] -> [GUEST_MEMFD] > > and [GUEST_MEMFD] would then fan it out to [KVM], [IOMMU], [USERSPACE] > and [DIRECTMAP]. (Fred is the one with his head in this space right now; I mostly wanted to get the ball rolling from our side. So if he contradicts me, take his word for it and don't necessarily wait for me to concede.) Your model above works for me, I think. I just don't *like* it very much.=C2=A0 I had a nice clean (in my head) model where the memory provider is the owner of that memory, responsible for who owns what and whether it's read-only/shared/private/revoked, and for persisting it across live update. Anyone who wants a piece of it can come and ask, and it interfaced directly to KVM, IOMMU and anything else. And it was then theoretically usable for other things, too. Fred has already been working on ways for a guest to donate memory to the host for caches to support more efficient nesting, for example, and that could have used a memory provider (which, on the back end, has had its pages donated from the guest). The model of pushing it all into gmemfd probably works... but kind of makes my skin itch in ways I can't fully express. It does absolutely need to support PFN-based operation though. And one of the main design points is that we want to support the memory provider being the *trusted* arbiter of who owns what. The provider will be the part that gets the most careful review, that some people will be suggesting that we write in Rust because it magically fixes all bugs. Where in some platforms we have EL2 literally *enforcing* the fact that a rogue Linux kernel *cannot* access the wrong guests' memory, the model we want to support here is the next best thing, where a small and trusted piece of code provides and revokes those PFNs. As long as that's preserved, I guess it's probably OK to push more of the coordination into gmemfd than I had originally imagined. > Does your provider need to know if some memory was transitioned between > shared/private states? The provider can be notified too, if > necessary. If not, then isn't guest_memfd doing all the coordination > better than going via the provider? I think it at least needs to know, doesn't it? If a guest page is being taken away (donated to another guest, or something like Fred's nested cache), then we do kind of have opinions on whether it's back in 'shared' mode or whether it's still allegedly private to the guest which claimed to donate it. --=-QY2QZkBPV5msUx0Wk8s2 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCE8Ew ggWvMIIEl6ADAgECAhANkOKMSmGXhF5eMl0rsRhvMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBHMjAeFw0yNDAzMTMwMDAwMDBaFw0zNDAz MTIyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5EaWdpQ2VydCwgSW5jLjE6MDgGA1UE AxMxRGlnaUNlcnQgQXNzdXJlZCBHMiBTTUlNRSBSU0E0MDk2IFNIQTM4NCAyMDI0IENBMTCCAiIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAOfSIeC0vv1xPQ+dgSxbIIrkaru6skAWJYaGFzmv 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