From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757485AbcLOIFl (ORCPT ); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:05:41 -0500 Received: from mail-wj0-f193.google.com ([209.85.210.193]:36633 "EHLO mail-wj0-f193.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1757437AbcLOIFj (ORCPT ); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: clarify that "B:" is the URI where to file bugs To: "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Jani Nikula , Andrew Morton References: <1480939439-27947-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com> <3410422.Yk2TfS5x67@aspire.rjw.lan> <87wpfax0io.fsf@intel.com> <15119297.CGM95ee3ZT@aspire.rjw.lan> Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Laura Abbott , Linus Torvalds , Darren Hart , Len Brown From: Vlastimil Babka Message-ID: <462eefb2-a6fa-ef51-da23-6c5abd192e92@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:47:26 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15119297.CGM95ee3ZT@aspire.rjw.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 12/08/2016 03:26 PM, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > On Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:55:59 AM Jani Nikula wrote: >> On Thu, 08 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" wrote: >>> On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:35:07 AM Jani Nikula wrote: >>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016, "Rafael J. Wysocki" wrote: >>>>> On Monday, December 05, 2016 02:03:59 PM Jani Nikula wrote: >>>>>> Different subsystems and drivers have different preferences for where to >>>>>> file bugs and what information to include. 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: >>>>>> Add bug tracking system location entry type") added "B:" entry for this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Clarify that "B:" specifies the URI for the bug tracker directly, a web >>>>>> page for detailed info on filing bugs, or a mailto: URI. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fixes: 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry type") >>>>>> Cc: Rafael J. Wysocki >>>>>> Cc: Andrew Morton >>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jani Nikula >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> Rafael, I just noticed the "B:" entry popped up in MAINTAINERS from >>>>>> 686564434e88 ("MAINTAINERS: Add bug tracking system location entry >>>>>> type"). >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been pushing this for some time now, and I'd sent the last patch >>>>>> adding this before the kernel summit discussion you refer to [1], and >>>>>> Andrew picked it up, along with the rest in the series. This is where >>>>>> the whole idea came from! >>>>>> >>>>>> Specifying "B:" as URI lets subsystems decide whether it contains a bug >>>>>> tracker or something else. >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1476966135-26943-1-git-send-email-jani.nikula@intel.com Hello, I've noticed that [1] meanwhile landed as 2de2bd95f4563, so now we have two different B: explanations in MAINTAINERS. Too bad this thread was not resolved. Trying to CC some people from the kernel summit session where bugzilla was discussed, keeping the rest of e-mail. Vlastimil >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realize that this was on the way in, sorry about that. >>>>> >>>>> That said I'm slightly concerned about the last part of the modified >>>>> description below. Namely, if mailing list information is already >>>>> provided (the M: entry), it obviously should be suitable for reporting >>>>> bugs too, so I'm not sure about what the "or a mailto: URI" role is? >>>> >>>> The absence of "B:" does not indicate that the mailing list in "M:" is >>>> the preferred way of reporting bugs to the driver/subsystem. >>> >>> Well, if I had a development mailing, why wouldn't I want to get bug reports to it? >>> >>> How useful would that be, really? >>> >>> And would it actually make any sense? >>> >>> To me, the meaning of B: should be where to file bugs in addition to and >>> not istead of the M: list. Which is why I used this particular description in >>> the first place. >>> >>>> I believe there are plenty of subsystems that don't really care about bugs >>>> reported at https://bugzilla.kernel.org; they could use this to direct >>>> the users to the mailing list. The subsystem could use a *different* >>>> list for reporting bugs. A mailto: URI could even include a preferred >>>> subject prefix, or Cc's [1]. >>> >>> But why really? >>> >>> Why to complicate things more than necessary? >>> >>> You seem to be claiming that the one-liner description I used is somehow >>> insufficient, but I'm sort of failing to see that. >>> >>>> The main point of "B:" is to let the maintainers communicate their >>>> preferred way of receiving bug reports to the users, especially when the >>>> mailing list(s) or https://bugzilla.kernel.org are *not* preferred. >>> >>> So here's where we differ. >>> >>> It may or may not be preferred and to me it just means "there is one more >>> place to report bugs for this in addition to the mailing list". >>> >>> Because I'm not going to refuse to respond to bug reports sent to the mailing >>> lists in the M: entries for the subsystems I maintain in any case. And I sort of >>> can't imagine how anyone responsible enough could do that. >> >> Over at drm/i915 we *prefer* to have the bugs reported at >> https://bugs.freedesktop.org. Not the mailing list, not at >> https://bugzilla.kernel.org. The last two happen to be the current >> default, and we prefer not to use either of them. >> >> Why do you think you know better than us what we prefer? > > Yes, that's what you prefer and I'm not discussing with that. > > And you can even achieve it with the current definition of entires like this: > > M: (no bug reports please) > B: https://bugs.freedesktop.org > > What I'm saying is that for the other subsystems that want to use B: that > simply need not mean "preferred", but "alternative". > >> Why do you think our *preference* for bugs reported at fdo makes us >> irresponsible and/or refuse to respond to bugs on the mailing list? > > Well, I didn't say what this implies. > > It looks like you are taking what I said as offensive somehow, but that was > not my intention. Sorry if it sounded like that. > >> Please only speak for yourself, > > Which is exactly what I did (or at least that was my intention). > >> and don't try to decide for us. > > No, this isn't what I'm trying to do. > > I'm trying to ensure that the B: entries I added will not confuse people in the > end after the change that you are proposing, because they are not supposed > to mean "you should file bug reports there". They are supposed to mean > "you can file bug reports there", or more precisely "if you file a bug report there, > someone is actually going to take care of it". > > So basically, the introduction of B: as I did it changes the bugzilla.kernel.org > default for everybody (which you don't like too) into "no default", as far as > bug tracking systems are concerned. Which addresses the problem > with the general bug reporters' expectation that all bugs submitted to > bugzilla.kernel.org will be taken care of (which is not the case). > > Your proposed change takes it further to specify a preference which clearly was > not my intention. > > I really wouldn't like all PM bugs go to the BZ, for example, because for some > of them this is just overkill. Also if people see problems during development > and not in production, reporting them via the M: list is more natural. And I > could give you a couple more reasons here. > > Thanks, > Rafael >