From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16CCE74905 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2023 18:16:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S238744AbjJBSQf (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:16:35 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:53304 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229604AbjJBSQd (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:16:33 -0400 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 996A59B; Mon, 2 Oct 2023 11:16:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=DTs4MCkWa4O51zLZooaCLs2DXs4Y4+zbpbqGLpSf0ao=; b=NTkcXD38zZT5iyrKmARaSEk1ZH udqqr9czl7TilAW6BKUVMWISXoI5H3cBIfDOOdpZyyGvhNwSdm+hADLXjXNBJnx2mca8JLitq/aF5 Q74WXczLPfNt5Ih4JoCMEXE8YOly4/lVJcqn3ljX3xAlljAkeo168V4aGxz/yAOTKzJt8+t8o7i19 9tR1SfYeLYFlM/VRkvJ4OdPATX3U1bq4R6BbNwyWz/IstUGQolOC+bQuTeb67hUc9InvnlVCcWFfm KTPb8zIc4cUoboj7JEaWSbcF+meUUrgHEaoJEyDoLsqrDKoIT/jtxFIcdpVVd9NvnJ5RTUFJcZ7WI 9KQQ7l6Q==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:5205:71fd:de0:52fd] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1qnNSw-00ATMV-Mj; Mon, 02 Oct 2023 18:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: <52a3cea2084482fc67e35a0bf37453f84dcd6297.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 1/1] KVM: x86: add param to update master clock periodically From: David Woodhouse To: Sean Christopherson Cc: Dongli Zhang , Joe Jin , x86@kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, pbonzini@redhat.com, tglx@linutronix.de, mingo@redhat.com, bp@alien8.de, dave.hansen@linux.intel.com Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2023 19:16:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <20230926230649.67852-1-dongli.zhang@oracle.com> <377d9706-cc10-dfb8-5326-96c83c47338d@oracle.com> <36f3dbb1-61d7-e90a-02cf-9f151a1a3d35@oracle.com> <884aa233ef46d5209b2d1c92ce992f50a76bd656.camel@infradead.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-CgKoueqD1RfYvRdpZlra" User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4-0ubuntu2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --=-CgKoueqD1RfYvRdpZlra Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2023-10-02 at 09:37 -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > On Mon, Oct 02, 2023, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Fri, 2023-09-29 at 13:15 -0700, Dongli Zhang wrote: > > >=20 > > > 1. The vcpu->hv_clock (kvmclock) is based on its own mult/shift/equat= ion. > > >=20 > > > 2. The raw monotonic (tsc_clocksource) uses different mult/shift/equa= tion. > > >=20 > >=20 > > That just seems wrong. I don't mean that you're incorrect; it seems > > *morally* wrong. > >=20 > > In a system with X86_FEATURE_CONSTANT_TSC, why would KVM choose to use > > a *different* mult/shift/equation (your #1) to convert TSC ticks to > > nanoseconds than the host CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW does (your #2). > >=20 > > I understand that KVM can't track the host's CLOCK_MONOTONIC, as it's > > adjusted by NTP. But CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW is supposed to be consistent. > >=20 > > Fix that, and the whole problem goes away, doesn't it? > >=20 > > What am I missing here, that means we can't do that? >=20 > I believe the answer is that "struct pvclock_vcpu_time_info" and its math= are > ABI between KVM and KVM guests. >=20 > Like many of the older bits of KVM, my guess is that KVM's behavior is th= e product > of making things kinda sorta work with old hardware, i.e. was probably th= e least > awful solution in the days before constant TSCs, but is completely nonsen= sical on > modern hardware. I still don't understand. The ABI and its math are fine. The ABI is just "at time X the TSC was Y, and the TSC frequency is Z" I understand why on older hardware, those values needed to *change* occasionally when TSC stupidity happened.=20 But on newer hardware, surely we can set them precisely *once* when the VM starts, and never ever have to change them again? Theoretically not even when we pause the VM, kexec into a new kernel, and resume the VM! But we *are* having to change it, because apparently CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW is doing something *other* than incrementing at precisely the frequency of the known and constant TSC. But *why* is CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW doing that? I thought that the whole point of CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW was to be consistent and not adjusted by NTP etc.? Shouldn't it run at precisely the same rate as the kvmclock, with no skew at all? And if CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW is not what I thought it was... do we really have to keep resetting the kvmclock to it at all? 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