From: "Vegard Nossum" <vegard@peltkore.net>
To: "Adrian Bunk" <bunk@stusta.de>
Cc: "Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
"Diego Calleja" <diegocg@gmail.com>,
"Andi Kleen" <andi@firstfloor.org>,
"Chuck Ebbert" <cebbert@redhat.com>,
"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.21
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:25:45 +0200 (CEST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <61071.84.210.74.57.1177961145.squirrel@peltkore.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070430185747.GF23336@stusta.de>
On Mon, April 30, 2007 8:57 pm, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> I never expected the reality to be come as white as my ideal or the
> washed things in washing powder ads.
This reminds me very much of what the brilliant computing scientist Edsger
W. Dijkstra more than once wrote:
`Confusing "love of perfection" with "claim of perfection", people will
accuse you of the latter and then blame you for the first.' (EWD709)
Also relevant to the discussion, I think, but in another way, is this:
`One of them is the dogma that striving for perfection is
counterproductive in the sense that it would make software development
much too expensive. But what are the main causes of the soaring costs of
software development? A major cost, in terms of both manpower and
unforeseen delays, is debugging, and one can save a lot by investing more
in preventing the bugs from entering the design in the first place. Since
the errors are so expensive, in general the high-quality design is also by
far the cheaper. Another major cause is that many systems are built on
shifting foundations in the sense that the underlying software of
operating systems and compilers is too shaky to be stable, with the result
that each new release of that underlying software requires possibly
extensive adaptation of what has been built on top of it. Finally, many of
the tools the programmer is supposed to work with are so poorly documented
that they force him to find out by experiment what they might be able to
do for him. Since these experiments can be pretty expensive and
time-consuming and inductive reasoning being what it is an educated
guess is the best the poor programmer can hope for, the poor programmer is
really in a miserable position. So here you see three major sources of
cost explosion traced down to someone's assumption that striving for
perfection is counterproductive!' (EWD952)
For the complete documents, see
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD07xx/EWD709.html and
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD09xx/EWD952.html,
respectively.
Regards from Vegard's
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-04-30 19:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 292+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-04-26 3:29 Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 4:08 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 4:38 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-26 5:02 ` Greg KH
2007-04-26 5:44 ` Nick Piggin
2007-04-26 5:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-26 6:28 ` Jeff Chua
2007-04-26 6:46 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-04-26 8:03 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-04-26 12:32 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 8:42 ` Soeren Sonnenburg
2007-04-26 9:20 ` Jens Axboe
2007-04-26 10:44 ` Jesper Juhl
2007-04-26 12:58 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 15:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 16:59 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 17:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 17:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 18:37 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 18:45 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:55 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 21:34 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 19:11 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-27 17:14 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-04-27 19:35 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-28 20:44 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-04-26 20:50 ` Alan Cox
2007-04-27 14:58 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-27 16:31 ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-27 19:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-27 20:23 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-28 12:51 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-27 21:17 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 17:02 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-04-26 18:13 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-26 18:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 20:41 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-26 21:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 9:33 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2007-04-28 19:08 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-28 22:11 ` Neil Brown
2007-04-28 22:33 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 22:42 ` Neil Brown
2007-04-28 23:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:03 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-29 0:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:28 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-28 19:53 ` Adrian Bunk
[not found] ` <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704281529080. 9964@woody.linux-foundation.org>
2007-04-28 20:27 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 21:43 ` irks with bugzilla (was Re: Linux 2.6.21) Stefan Richter
2007-04-28 22:49 ` Linux 2.6.21 Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 23:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 13:15 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 16:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 16:34 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 16:49 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 17:37 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 17:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-14 6:29 ` regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21) Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 15:33 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-14 16:39 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 16:36 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-14 17:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-14 20:33 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-14 20:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-15 23:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-15 23:42 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 1:32 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-16 2:55 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 5:03 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-16 13:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-16 12:23 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-16 12:54 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 0:44 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 9:41 ` [PATCH] (Re: regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21)) Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 9:55 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-17 10:22 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 11:47 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 12:13 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 14:24 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 14:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 17:44 ` david
2007-06-17 21:23 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 12:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 12:45 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 13:17 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 14:02 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 14:29 ` How to improve the quality of the kernel? Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 16:15 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 16:26 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 16:47 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 18:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 18:44 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 18:50 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-22 12:01 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-06-22 14:19 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-22 15:25 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-17 17:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 17:42 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-17 18:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 19:31 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-17 18:53 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 18:52 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-17 19:18 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-17 19:33 ` Carlo Wood
2007-06-17 20:00 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 20:10 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-17 21:49 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 23:15 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-18 0:22 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-18 0:32 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-18 5:09 ` Andrew Morton
2007-06-18 13:23 ` Fortier,Vincent [Montreal]
2007-06-18 22:31 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-18 22:41 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-18 22:56 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-18 23:59 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 0:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 0:24 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 0:42 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 0:55 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 1:10 ` Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 4:06 ` This is [Re:] How to improve the quality of the kernel[?] Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 12:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 14:05 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 14:27 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 15:47 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 17:50 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 18:56 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 19:21 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 15:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 15:08 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-19 17:14 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 15:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 16:53 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-19 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-19 17:37 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 17:51 ` Oleg Verych
2007-06-21 23:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-21 23:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-06-22 0:16 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-21 23:48 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-06-19 13:30 ` Don Armstrong
2007-06-19 1:51 ` How to improve the quality of the kernel? Fortier,Vincent [Montreal]
2007-06-19 2:27 ` Natalie Protasevich
2007-06-19 11:06 ` Stefan Richter
2007-06-17 23:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-18 1:04 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2007-06-17 18:54 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-06-19 0:28 ` regression tracking (Re: Linux 2.6.21) Martin Bligh
2007-06-19 14:49 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-06-19 17:27 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-29 18:50 ` Linux 2.6.21 Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 18:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 19:14 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 20:18 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 20:43 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:00 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 22:00 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 23:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 20:52 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2007-04-29 22:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-30 6:30 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-30 23:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-05-04 18:18 ` Bugzilla (was Linux 2.6.21) Martin J. Bligh
2007-04-30 5:43 ` Linux 2.6.21 Willy Tarreau
2007-04-29 17:35 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 17:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 18:09 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 18:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 18:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 19:31 ` Russell King
2007-04-29 19:40 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 19:51 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-30 1:50 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-30 4:54 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2007-04-30 5:06 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-29 20:17 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 20:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 21:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 7:45 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2007-04-30 18:09 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 18:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 18:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-30 18:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 19:25 ` Vegard Nossum [this message]
2007-04-29 22:36 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-29 23:18 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-04-29 23:41 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-30 0:05 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-04-30 7:54 ` Matthias Andree
2007-04-29 20:56 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 21:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:16 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:21 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:26 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:52 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-29 22:19 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:33 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-29 22:37 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 22:48 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 23:09 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 22:42 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 22:57 ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-04-29 21:51 ` Diego Calleja
2007-04-29 23:19 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 21:29 ` Francois Romieu
2007-05-02 19:59 ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-04-29 20:01 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 21:26 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 21:41 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 22:15 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-29 20:38 ` Simon Arlott
2007-04-30 7:34 ` Matthias Andree
2007-04-29 23:55 ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-30 0:13 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-30 1:14 ` Björn Steinbrink
2007-04-30 1:31 ` Andi Kleen
2007-04-30 5:02 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-30 7:59 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2007-04-30 16:51 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 7:34 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 22:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 22:58 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-28 23:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 0:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 21:27 ` Dave Jones
2007-04-29 21:27 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 22:09 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-29 0:20 ` Bob Tracy
2007-04-29 0:40 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-29 0:28 ` Markus Rechberger
2007-04-29 3:40 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 6:43 ` David Lang
2007-04-29 9:34 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 9:40 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 6:01 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-29 9:53 ` Stefan Richter
2007-04-29 7:37 ` Russell King
2007-04-28 23:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-28 23:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 3:41 ` David Miller
2007-04-29 8:44 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-30 18:13 ` Borislav Petkov
2007-04-26 17:39 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 17:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 21:14 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 23:32 ` Thomas Gleixner
2007-04-27 0:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 23:08 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-04-26 17:23 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 18:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 18:36 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 18:58 ` Francois Romieu
2007-04-26 19:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 19:19 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:43 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:43 ` Francois Romieu
2007-04-26 19:53 ` Stephen Clark
[not found] ` <4630FC6C.6070902@seclark.us>
[not found] ` <4630FE8D.6090900@garzik.org>
2007-04-26 19:48 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-27 15:22 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-26 19:14 ` Stephen Clark
2007-04-26 19:32 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-04-26 21:02 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-26 21:02 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-27 21:36 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 6:30 ` Jan De Luyck
2007-04-26 8:23 ` Marat Buharov
2007-04-27 6:30 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 8:35 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 16:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 19:02 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-04-27 4:08 ` Mike Galbraith
2007-04-26 19:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 21:59 ` Mel Gorman
2007-04-26 7:52 linux
2007-04-28 20:42 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-29 20:46 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-29 21:39 ` Arkadiusz Miskiewicz
2007-04-29 21:04 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 3:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 4:57 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2007-04-30 7:43 ` Andrew Morton
2007-04-30 6:25 ` Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 14:56 ` Gene Heskett
2007-04-30 6:09 Tomasz Chmielewski
2007-04-30 7:01 ` David Miller
2007-04-30 18:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-04-30 10:03 Nicolas Mailhot
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