From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1750785AbWGPGSc (ORCPT ); Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:18:32 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751442AbWGPGSc (ORCPT ); Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:18:32 -0400 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]:46275 "EHLO ug-out-1314.google.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750785AbWGPGSb (ORCPT ); Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:18:31 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=r3J226icQ3VnJaqvzgf0dHaAk6CnZl19cp3tgenm+VQqqSIV//QCvD7oke2/1pBDs4MFkrEEV7mIZF1evNPhRZYmzpcRfPeGSxVEt//kALuZz3wkdnW8mUYAfE3ByBgjmAM2wP6oIY9lXgyspTfqODnX1zL0VICS/+6yG93cb+I= Message-ID: <787b0d920607152318o72634affhbb51b3826f8daee5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:18:30 -0400 From: "Albert Cahalan" To: "David Woodhouse" Subject: Re: 2.6.18 Headers - Long Cc: arjan@infradead.org, maillist@jg555.com, ralf@linux-mips.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, davem@davemloft.net In-Reply-To: <1153000020.8427.16.camel@pmac.infradead.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <787b0d920607151409q4d0dfcc1wc787d9dfe7b0a897@mail.gmail.com> <1153000020.8427.16.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 7/15/06, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Sat, 2006-07-15 at 17:09 -0400, Albert Cahalan wrote: > > Don't blame app developers if they go for what is good. > > To stop them, provide the goodness in a sane way. > > (alternately, make the Linux code suck ass more than POSIX) > > Kernel headers are _not_ a library of random crap for userspace to use. Says you, and a number of other people around here. App developers seem to feel differently. Accept reality. > There is no justification for asm/atomic.h being installed > in /usr/include. Especially since, as Arjan points out, it doesn't > actually provide atomic operations in many cases anyway. It's fixable via #ifdef __KERNEL__ of course. > However, the kernel is released under a licence which allows you to > re-use code from it if you really want. Well, ideally it'd be LGPL, but yes. > If you want to provide a > 'libkernelstuff', the GPL permits you to do that. The kernel's ABI > headers (and lkml) are not the appropriate place for such a project Perhaps. This is duplication of effort though. You're the person trying to change the app developers. If you want to change them, provide an alternative that doesn't totally suck ass. > Btw, your mail client omitted the References: and In-Reply-To: headers > which RFC2822 says it SHOULD have included. On a list with as much > traffic as linux-kernel, that's _very_ suboptimal, because you've > detached your message from the thread to which you replied. Please try > to fix or work around that. Most clients won't allow adding such headers manually. I don't actually subscribe to the list. Most clients won't expire old list traffic, and I certainly can't have lkml pour unhindered into my inbox. It really doesn't work for me, so I cut and paste from a list archive. Sorry. Ideas are welcome of course, but I'm not expecting any reasonable solution to exist.