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From: David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>
To: Kevin Brodsky <kevin.brodsky@arm.com>,
	Alexander Gordeev <agordeev@linux.ibm.com>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andreas Larsson <andreas@gaisler.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Christophe Leroy <christophe.leroy@csgroup.eu>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Juergen Gross <jgross@suse.com>,
	"Liam R. Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@oracle.com>,
	Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com>,
	Madhavan Srinivasan <maddy@linux.ibm.com>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>, Mike Rapoport <rppt@kernel.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@arm.com>,
	Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Yeoreum Yun <yeoreum.yun@arm.com>,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org,
	Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland@arm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/7] mm: introduce local state for lazy_mmu sections
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 10:04:12 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7953a735-6129-4d22-be65-ce736630d539@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <15d01c8b-5475-442e-9df5-ca37b0d5dc04@arm.com>

>>
>> struct lazy_mmu_state {
>>      uint8_t enabled_count;
>>      bool paused;
> 
> Looking at the arm64 implementation, I'm thinking: instead of the paused
> member, how about a PF_LAZY_MMU task flag? It would be set when lazy_mmu
> is actually enabled (i.e. inside an enter()/leave() section, and not
> inside a pause()/resume() section). This way, architectures could use
> that flag directly to tell if lazy_mmu is enabled instead of reinventing
> the wheel, all in slightly different ways. Namely:
> 
> * arm64 uses a thread flag (TIF_LAZY_MMU) - this is trivially replaced
> with PF_LAZY_MMU
> * powerpc and sparc use batch->active where batch is a per-CPU variable;
> I expect this can also be replaced with PF_LAZY_MMU
> * x86/xen is more complex as it has xen_lazy_mode which tracks both
> LAZY_MMU and LAZY_CPU modes. I'd probably leave that one alone, unless a
> Xen expert is motivated to refactor it.
> 
> With that approach, the implementation of arch_enter() and arch_leave()
> becomes very simple (no tracking of lazy_mmu status) on arm64, powerpc
> and sparc.
> 
> (Of course we could also have an "enabled" member in lazy_mmu_state
> instead of PF_LAZY_MMU, there is no functional difference.)
> 

No strong opinion, but to me it feels like PF_LAZY_MMU is rather "the 
effective state when combining nested+paused", and might complicate the 
code + sanity checks?

So we could maintain that in addition fairly easily of course from the 
core instead of letting archs do that manually.

I would probably have to see the end result to judge whether removing 
the "paused" bool makes things look more complicated or not.

>> }
>>
>> c) With that config, common-code lazy_mmu_*() functions implement the
>> updating of the lazy_mmu_state in task_struct and call into arch code
>> on the transition from 0->1, 1->0 etc.
> 
> Indeed, this is how I thought about it. There is actually quite a lot
> that can be moved to the generic functions:
> * Updating lazy_mmu_state
> * Sanity checks on lazy_mmu_state (e.g. underflow/overflow)
> * Bailing out if in_interrupt() (not done consistently across arch's at
> the moment)
> 
>>
>> Maybe that can be done through exiting
>> arch_enter_lazy_mmu_mode()/arch_leave_lazy_mmu_mode() callbacks, maybe
>> we need more. I feel like
>> we might be able to implement that through the existing helpers.
> 
> We might want to rename them to align with the new generic helpers, but
> yes otherwise the principle should remain unchanged.
> 
> In fact, we will also need to revive arch_flush_lazy_mmu_mode().

That's okay if it's all hidden behaind a sane core API.

> Indeed,
> in the nested situation, we need the following arch calls:
> 
> enter() -> arch_enter()
>      enter() -> [nothing]
>      leave() -> arch_flush()
> leave() -> arch_leave()
> 
> leave() must always flush whatever arch state was batched, as may be
> expected by the caller.
> 
> How does all that sound?

I am no expert on the "always flush when leaving", but it sounds 
reasonable to me.

Which arch operations would you call from

pause()
continue()

?

>> And on top of the proposal above we will have some
>>
>> struct arch_lazy_mmu_state;
>>
>> define by the architecture (could be an empty struct on most).
>>
>> We can store that inside "struct lazy_mmu_state;" or if we ever have
>> to, start returning only that from the enable/disable etc. functions.
> 
> I'm not sure we'd want to mix those styles (task_struct member + local
> variable), that's adding complexity without much upside... Also having a
> local variable at every nesting level only makes sense if we have an
> arch callback regardless of nesting level, which is unnecessary in this
> proposed API.

Yes, that was rather a "if we ever really run out of space we could look 
into that", I am not a fan of it obviously.

-- 
Cheers

David / dhildenb


  reply	other threads:[~2025-09-12  8:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-08  7:39 [PATCH v2 0/7] Nesting support for lazy MMU mode Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 1/7] mm: remove arch_flush_lazy_mmu_mode() Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  9:29   ` Yeoreum Yun
2025-09-09  9:00   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 2/7] mm: introduce local state for lazy_mmu sections Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  9:30   ` Yeoreum Yun
2025-09-09  5:40   ` Andrew Morton
2025-09-09  9:05     ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09  9:07   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09  9:40     ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-09 10:09       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09 11:45         ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-09 11:54           ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09 13:49             ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09 14:02               ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09 14:28               ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-10 15:16                 ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-10 15:37                   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-11 16:19                     ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-11 18:14                       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-12  7:26                         ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-12  8:04                           ` David Hildenbrand [this message]
2025-09-12  8:48                             ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-12  8:55                               ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-12 12:37                                 ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-12 12:40                                   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-12 12:56                                     ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-12 13:02                                       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-12 14:05                                         ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-12 14:25                                           ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-12 15:02                                             ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09 14:38               ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-10 16:11                 ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-11 12:06                   ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-11 16:20                     ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09 10:57     ` Juergen Gross
2025-09-09 14:15       ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09 10:08   ` Jürgen Groß
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 3/7] arm64: mm: fully support nested " Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  9:30   ` Yeoreum Yun
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 4/7] x86/xen: support nested lazy_mmu sections (again) Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09  9:13   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09  9:37     ` Jürgen Groß
2025-09-09  9:56       ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09 11:28         ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09  9:42   ` Jürgen Groß
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 5/7] powerpc/mm: support nested lazy_mmu sections Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 6/7] sparc/mm: " Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  7:39 ` [PATCH v2 7/7] mm: update lazy_mmu documentation Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-08  9:30   ` Yeoreum Yun
2025-09-08 16:56 ` [PATCH v2 0/7] Nesting support for lazy MMU mode Lorenzo Stoakes
2025-09-09  9:10   ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-09  2:16 ` Andrew Morton
2025-09-09  9:21   ` David Hildenbrand
2025-09-09 13:59     ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-12 15:25     ` Kevin Brodsky
2025-09-15  6:28       ` Alexander Gordeev
2025-09-15 11:19         ` Kevin Brodsky

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