From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33FEE41684D; Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:38:25 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786531107; cv=none; b=GrOd4Ql3P5LakWlQ7HdXTHKobC7J8Hbi9YT4f5H/p8L14iU/SIum/hz1+mtMzXSXM23kNiyDHrBsnifazkseCLSk47NhSv9xW2Yms5pVbhF5uu+vsr9VG5RUsBccp99a+RW6HxoiEqs9/7K0fe5UjjvqRKemPJjUAEigXndMnJ0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1786531107; c=relaxed/simple; bh=ZCx+dwrvGPekeMc6SLCsjMITTKLCQ5SSIfGRuEEvko0=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=PbpfUsNUApb1Xnwl0DSbrXcTA4liqONO++iRX52kRq4xiFy+R6K4yBcvqRwzfJFvpm+Ae6zzDemxGu7YAeEpuVhoWsKM/aiiUVzOsbtL24JKnaPiFx8Yge509tWLkUNF5xOw/CUr9iW7lbeIbLkNZb+y8SIFNbLgSsJGWXsIRyA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=blRbcy/n; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="blRbcy/n" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C5011F000E9; Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:38:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1786531105; bh=Lu/qiEjyLXDw9PVQ3MvX7lPg6/5KHHIEuSsW3VTnccg=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=blRbcy/nSgMOHQs7HEFHJPqzROH6mLO3n+/pVLTZwrFBZNl1orRvZXPwnIFB60gSG Kw7tMtiTrTsitWbBy3RYd/t7iMiSczc+nzoMNRWGzALZhSJEc8yuTdTdZw9+DGHLfj NODWxMMfbcscYz4Rm5RGH9o52BKZvqmh7Jx4nw/OyazSH36j7TsaLvvufgWWSFayeS nnUVLuTx0UALHWFVHP9Rrju+DXUqUHUzChvaGh7bi0eyKBmPgmlLKUMJWtZpJ+5fTs cXN7SzRj7aFN8ll8kOeXEKKzaZVLifKJO4fDFOnZniUvccI1IjLBPpuPxxMAqRt9QH MO/GuKeDwbnbg== Message-ID: <7b066c1f-20b7-407f-9268-e9dbeafab004@kernel.org> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2026 12:38:12 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 05/10] dt-bindings: clock: renesas,r8a78000-cpg: Add firmware property To: Geert Uytterhoeven Cc: Rob Herring , Sudeep Holla , Cristian Marussi , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Conor Dooley , Saravana Kannan , Ulf Hansson , "Rafael J . Wysocki" , Philipp Zabel , Michael Turquette , Stephen Boyd , Brian Masney , Bartosz Golaszewski , Vinod Koul , Konrad Dybcio , Kevin Hilman , Florian Fainelli , Wolfram Sang , Marek Vasut , Kuninori Morimoto , arm-scmi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-clk@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <49726acff0fee1c3606e83c4f242ef6aad25b4b8.1783505329.git.geert+renesas@glider.be> <20260710-adventurous-burgundy-chimera-b2fff9@quoll> <20260716214924.GA1477674-robh@kernel.org> <20260811163334.GA2354701-robh@kernel.org> <45dfd858-9d59-47e6-91e0-ef9e6e909af6@kernel.org> From: Krzysztof Kozlowski Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=krzk@kernel.org; keydata= xsFNBFVDQq4BEAC6KeLOfFsAvFMBsrCrJ2bCalhPv5+KQF2PS2+iwZI8BpRZoV+Bd5kWvN79 cFgcqTTuNHjAvxtUG8pQgGTHAObYs6xeYJtjUH0ZX6ndJ33FJYf5V3yXqqjcZ30FgHzJCFUu JMp7PSyMPzpUXfU12yfcRYVEMQrmplNZssmYhiTeVicuOOypWugZKVLGNm0IweVCaZ/DJDIH gNbpvVwjcKYrx85m9cBVEBUGaQP6AT7qlVCkrf50v8bofSIyVa2xmubbAwwFA1oxoOusjPIE J3iadrwpFvsZjF5uHAKS+7wHLoW9hVzOnLbX6ajk5Hf8Pb1m+VH/E8bPBNNYKkfTtypTDUCj NYcd27tjnXfG+SDs/EXNUAIRefCyvaRG7oRYF3Ec+2RgQDRnmmjCjoQNbFrJvJkFHlPeHaeS BosGY+XWKydnmsfY7SSnjAzLUGAFhLd/XDVpb1Een2XucPpKvt9ORF+48gy12FA5GduRLhQU vK4tU7ojoem/G23PcowM1CwPurC8sAVsQb9KmwTGh7rVz3ks3w/zfGBy3+WmLg++C2Wct6nM Pd8/6CBVjEWqD06/RjI2AnjIq5fSEH/BIfXXfC68nMp9BZoy3So4ZsbOlBmtAPvMYX6U8VwD TNeBxJu5Ex0Izf1NV9CzC3nNaFUYOY8KfN01X5SExAoVTr09ewARAQABzSVLcnp5c3p0b2Yg S296bG93c2tpIDxrcnprQGtlcm5lbC5vcmc+wsGPBBMBCgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsE FgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBJvQfg4MUfjVlne3VBuTQ307QWKbBQJp2mE8AAoJEBuTQ307QWKbeaIP /ihHTkTW4KsN/DQ945JJbyu5tI0J80Wue7QyyLPglyKfhgb5cLLNPpOC8cCIJsc7+W3i2P38 s2c1cOH6CYGE7E9ur3Vfme8NW2S2I/Z8VC7bZnzyS23wT17LrsdS/qCpx4o8U+pt/xdXDKph EGRYrIEmMpUWvyYzyYKGIe25FtaayIIKpq8eZYyFcp2f/sG5IkOW5uZzHPMPdcm87jU7fyuQ rAU2vx9r+ulUfQ/q9Z2roC/ode3l7t2pN7BCBCsUDp6JCrUyZrtT1e7EbA0ZRP3aOBNk2P2E DQOgJGjGdO5Yx2Y9LFtltu6JbsBJHi1syGRX3AtQYOMc4Y1WGoeZJmMlvKj2ZqqXNkcWi2DS IQEWB0uW6CqFsBBIMGDa+6OzdaVO/uAVXWDWml02Men3CILdI1MbVjoh8ECqYUY7OQ+JJvNN vnliuq5WM3Ghd3jg/LZZrxXjdIginRHFQCjIJYLKpLZWm1/iDFedcfzqRNYmTtqscdCNHW41 oT3Z7BmO9xwdjuwBS6nmS6JJwkbf5Ot2QR4pB/DRU7ZwjT1qHe+9r9gF32wXVQatHNGK/VVu sfwOnkdxCWkp/qb2gdQRmZh+SedStWshigH6sNfuHBloF/q+hjMRc8b2m326OZdrbSHwY1Sz vti8Hn7n8NjdHO9LKB7BIdjkA9DA5WsqOuVCzsFNBFVDXDQBEADNkrQYSREUL4D3Gws46JEo Z9HEQOKtkrwjrzlw/tCmqVzERRPvz2Xg8n7+HRCrgqnodIYoUh5WsU84N03KlLueMNsWLJBv BaubYN4JuJIdRr4dS4oyF1/fQAQPHh8Thpiz0SAZFx6iWKB7Qrz3OrGCjTPcW6eiOMheesVS 5hxietSmlin+SilmIAPZHx7n242u6kdHOh+/SyLImKn/dh9RzatVpUKbv34eP1wAGldWsRxb f3WP9pFNObSzI/Bo3kA89Xx2rO2roC+Gq4LeHvo7ptzcLcrqaHUAcZ3CgFG88CnA6z6lBZn0 WyewEcPOPdcUB2Q7D/NiUY+HDiV99rAYPJztjeTrBSTnHeSBPb+qn5ZZGQwIdUW9YegxWKvX XHTwB5eMzo/RB6vffwqcnHDoe0q7VgzRRZJwpi6aMIXLfeWZ5Wrwaw2zldFuO4Dt91pFzBSO IpeMtfgb/Pfe/a1WJ/GgaIRIBE+NUqckM+3zJHGmVPqJP/h2Iwv6nw8U+7Yyl6gUBLHFTg2h YnLFJI4Xjg+AX1hHFVKmvl3VBHIsBv0oDcsQWXqY+NaFahT0lRPjYtrTa1v3tem/JoFzZ4B0 p27K+qQCF2R96hVvuEyjzBmdq2esyE6zIqftdo4MOJho8uctOiWbwNNq2U9pPWmu4vXVFBYI GmpyNPYzRm0QPwARAQABwsF2BBgBCgAgAhsMFiEEm9B+DgxR+NWWd7dUG5NDfTtBYpsFAmna YUkACgkQG5NDfTtBYptX+BAApg32CkxwNucNEi8WfWA8oKkW0y8YDuY6ORMo9FWNGiT/OTy0 vyJrLocrpn86zwfjVp+eCrssPYh8eqJfnWqmYv6ACQtHPYzPZQ3mSo8H97Z01oUxITzCxpXm ZkLgPIqtDPcC2E3dPM/fVxcyowM8XsaMA9wcsaUYrta8toOq2b9tKcjleKMfMrm0gQ9u7wUc QbLkwj6TCLOwucb07GXzLTNF9PZmaDUpKAZjMjmrW+le+SFvQbhamx0rxLWPR0NWntXpbCn+ +ACch03p/JyTBVktxFsFyCt7pTPE1kEaeuXBTe/a2D9iQvRxRW19LvuO2e59/u1wYUiH/orz wbIC2S4dBsPAPihL3ztOU1yE86GPyQtSE0kU+/7snnLt4QGi6PChf3t5gnNjAzjUUovO8rgI c+5yN5heq5loYHgK6OQ9OlHzsPHO9e9MOQcKlFycs1pyijFGzDwdNUm/SchK8iWT2QApTx4A K9bCVaboTA2T77QYkRcRJYSsO1alGX0ome/hMLD1daXlkrNUp1HWa3K4iytLRXjCSIorWiGs n+q3krnpXu3TFkA8qtOFZMdnIiFuiq1yLT8hptsV5xh1TA2nsVvSYiaCr3q4s4BKjS/KrLDb qoxzw8ISjdUp4pA85vb6YLCmb39NgidD+7PmAr65lBNveIFynTgsja1rRQ4= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/08/2026 12:02, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > Hi Krzysztof, > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 at 11:51, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: >> On 12/08/2026 11:47, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: >>>>>>>>> + firmware: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> RPi is doing similar, but I have doubts. It looks way too close to >>>>>>>> generic "syscon" which is disallowed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think this should be vendor+purpose specific, e.g.: >>>>>>>> "renesas,scmi-transport" or "renesas,scmi-firmware" >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can tell me the resource that a 'firmware' provider provides then >>>>>> it is fine, but you can't. >>>>> >>>>> It provides a firmware API, which is not available until the firmware >>>>> provider is initialized. >>>> >>>> I don't know what "a firmware API" is. What does it provide? I know what >>> >>> It can provide lots of things (everything we are no longer allowed to >>> touch directly from Linux ;-) >>> >>>> a clock, GPIO, reset, interrupt, etc. provider is. >>> >>> A clock is an object you can access through the clock API. >>> (s/clock/.../ for the other cases). >>> Firmware is a service (virtual object) you can access through a >>> firmware API. >>> >>> In all cases, the consumer of the object or service needs to know >>> which object or service to use (there can be multiple). >>> >>> In all cases you cannot access the object or service until it is >>> available (initialized and registered), for which we have -EPROBE_DEFER, >>> and/or "[PATCH v2 02/10] of: property: fw_devlink: Add support for >>> firmware". >>> >>> Thanks for your understanding ;-) >> >> I think that's the difference here. Clock is not an object, but a signal >> on a wire or within IC coming from one device (provider) to another >> (consumer). Firmware is not a signal, not a wire, not anything which can >> be provided from one to another. > > Oh yes, it is a service provided by the secure world or a different > CPU core to the application core running Linux. Service is still not a resource. Not mentioning it is way too generic, because anything can be a service. We have entire services-based economies. Best regards, Krzysztof