From: Daniel Almeida <dwlsalmeida@gmail.com>
To: Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@collabora.com>
Cc: "Philipp Stanner" <phasta@kernel.org>,
"Miguel Ojeda" <ojeda@kernel.org>,
"Boqun Feng" <boqun@kernel.org>, "Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
"Björn Roy Baron" <bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com>,
"Benno Lossin" <lossin@kernel.org>,
"Andreas Hindborg" <a.hindborg@kernel.org>,
"Alice Ryhl" <aliceryhl@google.com>,
"Trevor Gross" <tmgross@umich.edu>,
"Danilo Krummrich" <dakr@kernel.org>,
"Sumit Semwal" <sumit.semwal@linaro.org>,
"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
"Frederic Weisbecker" <frederic@kernel.org>,
"Neeraj Upadhyay" <neeraj.upadhyay@kernel.org>,
"Joel Fernandes" <joelagnelf@nvidia.com>,
"Josh Triplett" <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
"Uladzislau Rezki" <urezki@gmail.com>,
"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
"Mathieu Desnoyers" <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
"Lai Jiangshan" <jiangshanlai@gmail.com>,
Zqiang <qiang.zhang@linux.dev>,
"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Igor Korotin" <igor.korotin@linux.dev>,
"Lorenzo Stoakes" <ljs@kernel.org>,
"Alexandre Courbot" <acourbot@nvidia.com>,
"FUJITA Tomonori" <fujita.tomonori@gmail.com>,
"Krishna Ketan Rai" <prafulrai522@gmail.com>,
"Shankari Anand" <shankari.ak0208@gmail.com>,
manos@pitsidianak.is, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org,
dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org,
rcu@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/4] rust: Add dma_fence abstractions
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 12:51:35 -0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <82F71A28-076F-4100-A702-840018937D1B@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260604101552.4232733b@fedora-2.home>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Consider a fence design where signal() consumes self. Now consider this:
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> impl FenceCb for MyCallback {
>>>> fn called(&mut self) {
>>>> // Can't move the fence out, so we have to put an Option<T> just to be able
>>>> // to move.
>>>> if let Some(f) = self.some_fence.take() {
>>>> f.signal();
>>>> }
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> This used to be the case when our version of the job queue used the "proxy
>>>> fence" design:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> // Callback on the hw fence
>>>> impl FenceCb for MyCallback {
>>>> fn called(&mut self) {
>>>> if let Some(f) = self.submit_fence.take() {
>>>> f.signal();
>>>> }
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure lockdep won't like it anyway, because this is nested
>>> locking of the same lock class. For such proxies, we'll need to teach
>>> lockdep about the nesting like has been recently done on
>>> dma_fence_array & co. But I'm digressing.
>>
>> Yeah, but this is more about resource transfer in general, not
>> this pattern specifically.
>>
>> I agree that this has issues, and yes, lockdep complained back
>> then :)
>
> The thing is, there's so many aspects that could go wrong because of the
> context this callback is called in. Nested locking is one of them,
> the fact we can't sleep is another. And with rust it's even worse,
> because of the implicit drops that will happen when you take ownership
> of resources (taking sleeping locks to remove resources from a dataset
> for instance).
>
> So, by passing self by value to the ::callback(), you're basically
> telling users "hey, BTW, don't forget to defer the drop to some
> workqueue if you think it's not atomic-safe". And how can users know
> that the thing they're about to drop can be dropped in atomic context?
Can’t we create a token type that signals we’re in atomic context? If
we pass this token type as an argument, perhaps lockdep can check it for us?
Perhaps
enum SomeFancyName {
Atomic(AtomicToken)
NotAtomic,
}
signaled(self, atomic: AtomicToken) {
..
}
> They basically have to audit the ::drop() of all the resources they
> embed in their type implementing FenceCb. Not only that, but they also
> have to design the thing so the deferral of this ::drop() doesn't
> allocate, because, obviously, allocating in atomic context is
> tricky/fallible. AFAIK, none of this can be spot at compile-time (I
> remember Gary/Danilo mentioning that we could teach the klint about
> some of these rules). This would leave us with runtime checks like
> might_sleep(), but most of the C putters (xxx_put(object)) don't have
> might_sleep() in the path where the decref doesn't lead to a refcnt=0
> situation.
>
> TLDR; Call this PTSD if you want, but this is the sort of bugs I
> struggled with on the C side, and I can predict that the exact same
> will happen in rust drivers if we expose the FenceCb as it is designed
> here and we don't have a way to check the soundness of the FenceCb
> implementations at compile time.
>
> The other option (the one I've been advocating for from the start), is
> to not let drivers implement FenceCb (make it private), but instead
> have a bunch of implementations that we know are safe. Here's a list of
> implementations that I think would unblock most of the drivers use
> cases:
>
> - wakeup a thread
> - complete a completion object
> - schedule a WorkItem
> - schedule a kthread_worker (once we get a proper rust abstraction for
> that)
This can also work too, I guess.
>
> It doesn't mean we can't have optimized FenceCb implementations that do
> a lot more in the callback() path instead of deferring to a
> workqueue/thread, but at least those would have to be implemented in
> dma_fence.rs, and the dma_fence.rs maintainers can then carefully audit
> the code as part of the review process, which we know is not really the
> case when changes touch drivers code only.
>
> FWIW, I think the FenceProxy design you were describing falls into
> this "must be carefully audited" bucket, and should be implemented in
> dma_fence.rs.
>
>>
>>>
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> Although this is not the case anymore, since we phased out this design given
>>>> Christian's recent work. Still, we should ideally not require Option<T> here in
>>>> general just to make resource transfer possible.
>>>
>>> I see. OTOH, don't we need to make this inner data movable if we want
>>> to cancel the FenceCb before the fence is signaled anyway? And that's
>>> most certainly a case we have in the teardown path.
>>
>> Can you expand a bit on what you mean here?
>
> Never mind, I was confusing two different iterations of the code here.
> I thought the Option<T> you were mentioning was in
> FenceCbRegistration<T>, with some explicit ::cancel() function that
> would return Option<T> so the user can get its resources back when it
> cancels the registration, and also know whether the callback was called
> or not. But this is all gone now, and all we can do is drop the
> registration, which will automatically drop the inner T.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-06-05 15:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-05-30 14:35 [PATCH 0/4] rust / dma_buf: Add abstractions for dma_fence Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 1/4] rust: types: implement ForeignOwnable for ARef<T> Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 9:46 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 2/4] rust: rcu: add RcuBox type Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:08 ` Boqun Feng
2026-05-30 15:27 ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01 7:56 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:41 ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03 9:33 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-03 9:35 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-03 15:27 ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03 17:36 ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03 17:07 ` Boqun Feng
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 3/4] rust: Add dma_fence abstractions Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:16 ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01 8:46 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 10:13 ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01 10:36 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 10:59 ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-01 11:17 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 12:35 ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-01 12:26 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 12:39 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 12:47 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:22 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 13:23 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:27 ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 12:37 ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-03 16:41 ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-03 17:14 ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-04 0:43 ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-04 8:15 ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-05 7:56 ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-05 16:00 ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-05 16:02 ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-05 15:51 ` Daniel Almeida [this message]
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 4/4] MAINTAINERS: Add entry for Rust dma-buf Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:20 ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-03 15:22 ` [PATCH 0/4] rust / dma_buf: Add abstractions for dma_fence Daniel Almeida
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