mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Daniel Almeida <dwlsalmeida@gmail.com>
To: Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@collabora.com>
Cc: "Philipp Stanner" <phasta@kernel.org>,
	"Miguel Ojeda" <ojeda@kernel.org>,
	"Boqun Feng" <boqun@kernel.org>, "Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
	"Björn Roy Baron" <bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com>,
	"Benno Lossin" <lossin@kernel.org>,
	"Andreas Hindborg" <a.hindborg@kernel.org>,
	"Alice Ryhl" <aliceryhl@google.com>,
	"Trevor Gross" <tmgross@umich.edu>,
	"Danilo Krummrich" <dakr@kernel.org>,
	"Sumit Semwal" <sumit.semwal@linaro.org>,
	"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	"Frederic Weisbecker" <frederic@kernel.org>,
	"Neeraj Upadhyay" <neeraj.upadhyay@kernel.org>,
	"Joel Fernandes" <joelagnelf@nvidia.com>,
	"Josh Triplett" <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
	"Uladzislau Rezki" <urezki@gmail.com>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Mathieu Desnoyers" <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
	"Lai Jiangshan" <jiangshanlai@gmail.com>,
	Zqiang <qiang.zhang@linux.dev>,
	"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Igor Korotin" <igor.korotin@linux.dev>,
	"Lorenzo Stoakes" <ljs@kernel.org>,
	"Alexandre Courbot" <acourbot@nvidia.com>,
	"FUJITA Tomonori" <fujita.tomonori@gmail.com>,
	"Krishna Ketan Rai" <prafulrai522@gmail.com>,
	"Shankari Anand" <shankari.ak0208@gmail.com>,
	manos@pitsidianak.is, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org,
	dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org,
	rcu@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/4] rust: Add dma_fence abstractions
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 12:51:35 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <82F71A28-076F-4100-A702-840018937D1B@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260604101552.4232733b@fedora-2.home>


>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Consider a fence design where signal() consumes self. Now consider this:
>>>> 
>>>> ```
>>>> impl FenceCb for MyCallback {
>>>> fn called(&mut self) {
>>>>  // Can't move the fence out, so we have to put an Option<T> just to be able
>>>>  // to move.
>>>>  if let Some(f) = self.some_fence.take() {
>>>>    f.signal();
>>>>  }
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>> 
>>>> This used to be the case when our version of the job queue used the "proxy
>>>> fence" design:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ```
>>>> // Callback on the hw fence
>>>> impl FenceCb for MyCallback {
>>>> fn called(&mut self) {
>>>>  if let Some(f) = self.submit_fence.take() {
>>>>    f.signal();
>>>>  }  
>>> 
>>> I'm pretty sure lockdep won't like it anyway, because this is nested
>>> locking of the same lock class. For such proxies, we'll need to teach
>>> lockdep about the nesting like has been recently done on
>>> dma_fence_array & co. But I'm digressing.  
>> 
>> Yeah, but this is more about resource transfer in general, not
>> this pattern specifically.
>> 
>> I agree that this has issues, and yes, lockdep complained back
>> then :)
> 
> The thing is, there's so many aspects that could go wrong because of the
> context this callback is called in. Nested locking is one of them,
> the fact we can't sleep is another. And with rust it's even worse,
> because of the implicit drops that will happen when you take ownership
> of resources (taking sleeping locks to remove resources from a dataset
> for instance).
> 
> So, by passing self by value to the ::callback(), you're basically
> telling users "hey, BTW, don't forget to defer the drop to some
> workqueue if you think it's not atomic-safe". And how can users know
> that the thing they're about to drop can be dropped in atomic context?


Can’t we create a token type that signals we’re in atomic context? If
we pass this token type as an argument, perhaps lockdep can check it for us?

Perhaps

enum SomeFancyName {
  Atomic(AtomicToken)
  NotAtomic,
}

signaled(self, atomic: AtomicToken) {
  ..
}

> They basically have to audit the ::drop() of all the resources they
> embed in their type implementing FenceCb. Not only that, but they also
> have to design the thing so the deferral of this ::drop() doesn't
> allocate, because, obviously, allocating in atomic context is
> tricky/fallible. AFAIK, none of this can be spot at compile-time (I
> remember Gary/Danilo mentioning that we could teach the klint about
> some of these rules). This would leave us with runtime checks like
> might_sleep(), but most of the C putters (xxx_put(object)) don't have
> might_sleep() in the path where the decref doesn't lead to a refcnt=0
> situation.
> 
> TLDR; Call this PTSD if you want, but this is the sort of bugs I
> struggled with on the C side, and I can predict that the exact same
> will happen in rust drivers if we expose the FenceCb as it is designed
> here and we don't have a way to check the soundness of the FenceCb
> implementations at compile time.
> 
> The other option (the one I've been advocating for from the start), is
> to not let drivers implement FenceCb (make it private), but instead
> have a bunch of implementations that we know are safe. Here's a list of
> implementations that I think would unblock most of the drivers use
> cases:
> 
> - wakeup a thread
> - complete a completion object
> - schedule a WorkItem
> - schedule a kthread_worker (once we get a proper rust abstraction for
>  that)

This can also work too, I guess.

> 
> It doesn't mean we can't have optimized FenceCb implementations that do
> a lot more in the callback() path instead of deferring to a
> workqueue/thread, but at least those would have to be implemented in
> dma_fence.rs, and the dma_fence.rs maintainers can then carefully audit
> the code as part of the review process, which we know is not really the
> case when changes touch drivers code only.
> 
> FWIW, I think the FenceProxy design you were describing falls into
> this "must be carefully audited" bucket, and should be implemented in
> dma_fence.rs.
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> }
>>>> ```
>>>> 
>>>> Although this is not the case anymore, since we phased out this design given
>>>> Christian's recent work. Still, we should ideally not require Option<T> here in
>>>> general just to make resource transfer possible.  
>>> 
>>> I see. OTOH, don't we need to make this inner data movable if we want
>>> to cancel the FenceCb before the fence is signaled anyway? And that's
>>> most certainly a case we have in the teardown path.  
>> 
>> Can you expand a bit on what you mean here?
> 
> Never mind, I was confusing two different iterations of the code here.
> I thought the Option<T> you were mentioning was in
> FenceCbRegistration<T>, with some explicit ::cancel() function that
> would return Option<T> so the user can get its resources back when it
> cancels the registration, and also know whether the callback was called
> or not. But this is all gone now, and all we can do is drop the
> registration, which will automatically drop the inner T.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-06-05 15:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-05-30 14:35 [PATCH 0/4] rust / dma_buf: Add abstractions for dma_fence Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 1/4] rust: types: implement ForeignOwnable for ARef<T> Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01  9:46   ` Alice Ryhl
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 2/4] rust: rcu: add RcuBox type Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:08   ` Boqun Feng
2026-05-30 15:27     ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01  7:56     ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:41       ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03  9:33         ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-03  9:35           ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-03 15:27           ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03 17:36             ` Boqun Feng
2026-06-03 17:07   ` Boqun Feng
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 3/4] rust: Add dma_fence abstractions Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:16   ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01  8:46     ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 10:13       ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-01 10:36   ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 10:59     ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-01 11:17       ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 12:35         ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-01 12:26     ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 12:39       ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 12:47         ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:22           ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 13:23             ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-01 13:27               ` Alice Ryhl
2026-06-01 12:37     ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-03 16:41   ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-03 17:14     ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-04  0:43       ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-04  8:15         ` Boris Brezillon
2026-06-05  7:56           ` Philipp Stanner
2026-06-05 16:00             ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-05 16:02               ` Daniel Almeida
2026-06-05 15:51           ` Daniel Almeida [this message]
2026-05-30 14:35 ` [PATCH 4/4] MAINTAINERS: Add entry for Rust dma-buf Philipp Stanner
2026-05-30 15:20   ` Danilo Krummrich
2026-06-03 15:22 ` [PATCH 0/4] rust / dma_buf: Add abstractions for dma_fence Daniel Almeida

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=82F71A28-076F-4100-A702-840018937D1B@gmail.com \
    --to=dwlsalmeida@gmail.com \
    --cc=a.hindborg@kernel.org \
    --cc=acourbot@nvidia.com \
    --cc=aliceryhl@google.com \
    --cc=bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com \
    --cc=boqun@kernel.org \
    --cc=boris.brezillon@collabora.com \
    --cc=christian.koenig@amd.com \
    --cc=dakr@kernel.org \
    --cc=dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org \
    --cc=frederic@kernel.org \
    --cc=fujita.tomonori@gmail.com \
    --cc=gary@garyguo.net \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=igor.korotin@linux.dev \
    --cc=jiangshanlai@gmail.com \
    --cc=joelagnelf@nvidia.com \
    --cc=josh@joshtriplett.org \
    --cc=linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-media@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=ljs@kernel.org \
    --cc=lossin@kernel.org \
    --cc=manos@pitsidianak.is \
    --cc=mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com \
    --cc=neeraj.upadhyay@kernel.org \
    --cc=ojeda@kernel.org \
    --cc=paulmck@kernel.org \
    --cc=phasta@kernel.org \
    --cc=prafulrai522@gmail.com \
    --cc=qiang.zhang@linux.dev \
    --cc=rcu@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
    --cc=rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=shankari.ak0208@gmail.com \
    --cc=sumit.semwal@linaro.org \
    --cc=tmgross@umich.edu \
    --cc=urezki@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

Powered by JetHome