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[80.187.83.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-4255d8f4bdcsm30484973f8f.54.2025.10.08.08.43.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Oct 2025 08:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <83e33641-8c42-4341-8e6e-5c75d00f93b9@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2025 17:43:23 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] Revert "mm, hugetlb: remove hugepages_treat_as_movable sysctl" To: Michal Hocko Cc: Gregory Price , linux-mm@kvack.org, corbet@lwn.net, muchun.song@linux.dev, osalvador@suse.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, hannes@cmpxchg.org, laoar.shao@gmail.com, brauner@kernel.org, mclapinski@google.com, joel.granados@kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Mel Gorman , Alexandru Moise <00moses.alexander00@gmail.com>, Mike Kravetz , David Rientjes References: <20251007214412.3832340-1-gourry@gourry.net> <402170e6-c49f-4d28-a010-eb253fc2f923@redhat.com> <271f9af4-695c-4aa5-9249-2d21ad3db76e@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZoEEwEIAEQCGwMCF4ACGQEFCwkIBwICIgIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3AP+DWgUCaJzangUJJlgIpAAKCRBN 3hD3AP+DWhAxD/9wcL0A+2rtaAmutaKTfxhTP0b4AAp1r/eLxjrbfbCCmh4pqzBhmSX/4z11 opn2KqcOsueRF1t2ENLOWzQu3Roiny2HOU7DajqB4dm1BVMaXQya5ae2ghzlJN9SIoopTWlR 0Af3hPj5E2PYvQhlcqeoehKlBo9rROJv/rjmr2x0yOM8qeTroH/ZzNlCtJ56AsE6Tvl+r7cW 3x7/Jq5WvWeudKrhFh7/yQ7eRvHCjd9bBrZTlgAfiHmX9AnCCPRPpNGNedV9Yty2Jnxhfmbv Pw37LA/jef8zlCDyUh2KCU1xVEOWqg15o1RtTyGV1nXV2O/mfuQJud5vIgzBvHhypc3p6VZJ lEf8YmT+Ol5P7SfCs5/uGdWUYQEMqOlg6w9R4Pe8d+mk8KGvfE9/zTwGg0nRgKqlQXrWRERv cuEwQbridlPAoQHrFWtwpgYMXx2TaZ3sihcIPo9uU5eBs0rf4mOERY75SK+Ekayv2ucTfjxr Kf014py2aoRJHuvy85ee/zIyLmve5hngZTTe3Wg3TInT9UTFzTPhItam6dZ1xqdTGHZYGU0O otRHcwLGt470grdiob6PfVTXoHlBvkWRadMhSuG4RORCDpq89vu5QralFNIf3EysNohoFy2A LYg2/D53xbU/aa4DDzBb5b1Rkg/udO1gZocVQWrDh6I2K3+cCs7BTQRVy5+RARAA59fefSDR 9nMGCb9LbMX+TFAoIQo/wgP5XPyzLYakO+94GrgfZjfhdaxPXMsl2+o8jhp/hlIzG56taNdt VZtPp3ih1AgbR8rHgXw1xwOpuAd5lE1qNd54ndHuADO9a9A0vPimIes78Hi1/yy+ZEEvRkHk /kDa6F3AtTc1m4rbbOk2fiKzzsE9YXweFjQvl9p+AMw6qd/iC4lUk9g0+FQXNdRs+o4o6Qvy iOQJfGQ4UcBuOy1IrkJrd8qq5jet1fcM2j4QvsW8CLDWZS1L7kZ5gT5EycMKxUWb8LuRjxzZ 3QY1aQH2kkzn6acigU3HLtgFyV1gBNV44ehjgvJpRY2cC8VhanTx0dZ9mj1YKIky5N+C0f21 zvntBqcxV0+3p8MrxRRcgEtDZNav+xAoT3G0W4SahAaUTWXpsZoOecwtxi74CyneQNPTDjNg azHmvpdBVEfj7k3p4dmJp5i0U66Onmf6mMFpArvBRSMOKU9DlAzMi4IvhiNWjKVaIE2Se9BY FdKVAJaZq85P2y20ZBd08ILnKcj7XKZkLU5FkoA0udEBvQ0f9QLNyyy3DZMCQWcwRuj1m73D sq8DEFBdZ5eEkj1dCyx+t/ga6x2rHyc8Sl86oK1tvAkwBNsfKou3v+jP/l14a7DGBvrmlYjO 59o3t6inu6H7pt7OL6u6BQj7DoMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBBvZyq1zXEw6Rg38yk3e EPcA/4NaBQJonNqrBQkmWAihAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NaKtMQALAJ8PzprBEXbXcEXwDKQu+P/vts IfUb1UNMfMV76BicGa5NCZnJNQASDP/+bFg6O3gx5NbhHHPeaWz/VxlOmYHokHodOvtL0WCC 8A5PEP8tOk6029Z+J+xUcMrJClNVFpzVvOpb1lCbhjwAV465Hy+NUSbbUiRxdzNQtLtgZzOV Zw7jxUCs4UUZLQTCuBpFgb15bBxYZ/BL9MbzxPxvfUQIPbnzQMcqtpUs21CMK2PdfCh5c4gS sDci6D5/ZIBw94UQWmGpM/O1ilGXde2ZzzGYl64glmccD8e87OnEgKnH3FbnJnT4iJchtSvx yJNi1+t0+qDti4m88+/9IuPqCKb6Stl+s2dnLtJNrjXBGJtsQG/sRpqsJz5x1/2nPJSRMsx9 5YfqbdrJSOFXDzZ8/r82HgQEtUvlSXNaXCa95ez0UkOG7+bDm2b3s0XahBQeLVCH0mw3RAQg r7xDAYKIrAwfHHmMTnBQDPJwVqxJjVNr7yBic4yfzVWGCGNE4DnOW0vcIeoyhy9vnIa3w1uZ 3iyY2Nsd7JxfKu1PRhCGwXzRw5TlfEsoRI7V9A8isUCoqE2Dzh3FvYHVeX4Us+bRL/oqareJ CIFqgYMyvHj7Q06kTKmauOe4Nf0l0qEkIuIzfoLJ3qr5UyXc2hLtWyT9Ir+lYlX9efqh7mOY qIws/H2t In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 08.10.25 17:23, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Wed 08-10-25 17:14:26, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 08.10.25 16:59, Michal Hocko wrote: >>> On Wed 08-10-25 10:58:23, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>> On 07.10.25 23:44, Gregory Price wrote: >>> [...] >>>>> @@ -926,7 +927,8 @@ static inline gfp_t htlb_alloc_mask(struct hstate *h) >>>>> { >>>>> gfp_t gfp = __GFP_COMP | __GFP_NOWARN; >>>>> - gfp |= hugepage_movable_supported(h) ? GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE : GFP_HIGHUSER; >>>>> + gfp |= (hugepage_movable_supported(h) || hugepages_treat_as_movable) ? >>>>> + GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE : GFP_HIGHUSER; >>>> >>>> I mean, this is as ugly as it gets. >>>> >>>> Can't we just let that old approach RIP where it belongs? :) >>>> >>>> If something unmovable, it does not belong on ZONE_MOVABLE, as simple as that. >>> >>> yes, I do agree. This is just muddying the semantic of the zone. >>> >>> Maybe what we really want is to have a configurable zone rather than a >>> very specific consumer of it instead. What do I mean by that? We clearly >>> have physically (DMA, DMA32) and usability (NORMAL, MOVABLE) constrained >>> zones. So rather than having a MOVABLE zone we can have a single zone >>> $FOO_NAME zone with configurable attributes - like allocation >>> constrains (kernel, user, movable, etc). Now that we can overlap zones >>> this should allow for quite a lot flexibility. Implementation wise this >>> would require some tricks as we have 2 zone types for potentially 3 >>> different major usecases (kernel allocations, userspace reserved ranges >>> without movability and movable allocations). I haven't thought this >>> through completely and mostly throwing this as an idea (maybe won't >>> work). Does that make sense? >> >> I suggested something called PREFER_MOVABLE in the past, that would prefer >> movable allocations but nothing would stop unmovable allocations to end up >> on it. But only as a last resort or when explicitly requested (e.g., >> gigantic pages). >> >> Maybe that's similar to what you have in mind? > > Slightly different because what I was thinking about was more towards > guarantee/predictability. Last resort is quite hard to plan around. It > might be a peak memory pressure to eat up portion of a memory block and > then fragmenting it to prevent other use planned for that memroy block. > That is why I called it user allocations because those are supposed to > be configured for userspace consumation and planned for that use. So you > would get pretty much a guarantee that no kernel allocations will fall > there. What could end up on it that would not already end up on ZONE_MOVABLE? I guess long-term pinned pages, secretmem, guest_memfd, gigantic pages. Anything else? I'm not quite clear yet on the use case, though. If all the user allocations end up fragmenting the memory, there is also not a lot of benefit to be had from that zone long term. -- Cheers David / dhildenb