From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F9B22E9729 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2026 15:32:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1771860723; cv=none; b=YEf1znmaWZ3cng0Qr6FWID39FTuhCm4EpMYOfave/8WJiy6gowEkMSQehO13Xh51RR6S+07jbs5UPw5MiRxIw6H9hY2q4mCOZfOBsbqyQigJRWUFFnB1exowarOyKjXv/qjp8FpIJcFuyn9FJIN0jbZ5Rcz0jc3QfjSKcBhOwvQ= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1771860723; c=relaxed/simple; bh=LRL3TEebauglrWICWhBhJ8xMN4jV0MTXRZp1Fsp0Ovw=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=JhCkmFCJCjJbWBau1XoXc+aVeIRj1olR7I6xVNQ0CQ9RlpGslP2hBkBfTEXJCo4J9dIsbYpTTKcHxQe7+5unMHkqyAGem8VbpZ6wzZfb2SZj1iKZR7ROsLbej9xGuGXK3it4CtoWwILH6bqgyWvi9A+ToOxwg57eBi1y6XgzB1k= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=k4vPP7Zj; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="k4vPP7Zj" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83125C116D0; Mon, 23 Feb 2026 15:31:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1771860722; bh=LRL3TEebauglrWICWhBhJ8xMN4jV0MTXRZp1Fsp0Ovw=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=k4vPP7ZjMugCeFHa2nc4/4F7dgyQD+ogk9/gOBTtJc97epaG8wIVRoaynSjJ49O7e eqXiLgt6iP/y2la7NC33QK+y4rVr9oaCGn86/h/NBYmavRulcEoK8nzCVi3yd+8tkx pi9xxTcM1ikI+cirXUrU6JJYj4cRKuhQAfBxgVTN0g9389YsF2TflJQwJbp6H07FxQ /YSlVXvCSjD7dZSKXlVOheTfVtkcBV50jfJXYMaK8d5VipeJY4H0eotXEYBj3JW7A2 qzE+XHiIz9wSee7Jzkf/dEWxowp0CVS1amL8PbBONw9T06nIyoLdI/F74UsNVvTwjQ y7b15Va49h7wg== Message-ID: <89cc554e-9c6a-4c8d-8c30-573b2eabccac@kernel.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 16:31:56 +0100 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] 64k (or 16k) base page size on x86 To: Dave Hansen , Kiryl Shutsemau Cc: Kalesh Singh , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , Dave Hansen , Lorenzo Stoakes , "Liam R. Howlett" , Mike Rapoport , Matthew Wilcox , Johannes Weiner , Usama Arif References: <915aafb3-d1ff-4ae9-8751-f78e333a1f5f@kernel.org> <17c5708d-3859-49a5-814e-bc3564bc3ac6@kernel.org> <32ed82dd-62c3-4a5c-8bae-9465afd7e75f@kernel.org> <06684dc4-3902-4452-824a-ee2064314d24@kernel.org> <7b414e68-4d0b-4d2b-a664-bbbdf314c0d3@intel.com> From: "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@kernel.org; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzS5EYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCAoQ3VycmVudCkgPGRhdmlkQGtlcm5lbC5vcmc+wsGQBBMBCAA6AhsDBQkmWAik AgsJBBUKCQgCFgICHgUCF4AWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3AP+DWgUCaYJt/AIZAQAKCRBN 3hD3AP+DWriiD/9BLGEKG+N8L2AXhikJg6YmXom9ytRwPqDgpHpVg2xdhopoWdMRXjzOrIKD g4LSnFaKneQD0hZhoArEeamG5tyo32xoRsPwkbpIzL0OKSZ8G6mVbFGpjmyDLQCAxteXCLXz ZI0VbsuJKelYnKcXWOIndOrNRvE5eoOfTt2XfBnAapxMYY2IsV+qaUXlO63GgfIOg8RBaj7x 3NxkI3rV0SHhI4GU9K6jCvGghxeS1QX6L/XI9mfAYaIwGy5B68kF26piAVYv/QZDEVIpo3t7 /fjSpxKT8plJH6rhhR0epy8dWRHk3qT5tk2P85twasdloWtkMZ7FsCJRKWscm1BLpsDn6EQ4 jeMHECiY9kGKKi8dQpv3FRyo2QApZ49NNDbwcR0ZndK0XFo15iH708H5Qja/8TuXCwnPWAcJ DQoNIDFyaxe26Rx3ZwUkRALa3iPcVjE0//TrQ4KnFf+lMBSrS33xDDBfevW9+Dk6IISmDH1R HFq2jpkN+FX/PE8eVhV68B2DsAPZ5rUwyCKUXPTJ/irrCCmAAb5Jpv11S7hUSpqtM/6oVESC 3z/7CzrVtRODzLtNgV4r5EI+wAv/3PgJLlMwgJM90Fb3CB2IgbxhjvmB1WNdvXACVydx55V7 LPPKodSTF29rlnQAf9HLgCphuuSrrPn5VQDaYZl4N/7zc2wcWM7BTQRVy5+RARAA59fefSDR 9nMGCb9LbMX+TFAoIQo/wgP5XPyzLYakO+94GrgfZjfhdaxPXMsl2+o8jhp/hlIzG56taNdt VZtPp3ih1AgbR8rHgXw1xwOpuAd5lE1qNd54ndHuADO9a9A0vPimIes78Hi1/yy+ZEEvRkHk /kDa6F3AtTc1m4rbbOk2fiKzzsE9YXweFjQvl9p+AMw6qd/iC4lUk9g0+FQXNdRs+o4o6Qvy iOQJfGQ4UcBuOy1IrkJrd8qq5jet1fcM2j4QvsW8CLDWZS1L7kZ5gT5EycMKxUWb8LuRjxzZ 3QY1aQH2kkzn6acigU3HLtgFyV1gBNV44ehjgvJpRY2cC8VhanTx0dZ9mj1YKIky5N+C0f21 zvntBqcxV0+3p8MrxRRcgEtDZNav+xAoT3G0W4SahAaUTWXpsZoOecwtxi74CyneQNPTDjNg azHmvpdBVEfj7k3p4dmJp5i0U66Onmf6mMFpArvBRSMOKU9DlAzMi4IvhiNWjKVaIE2Se9BY FdKVAJaZq85P2y20ZBd08ILnKcj7XKZkLU5FkoA0udEBvQ0f9QLNyyy3DZMCQWcwRuj1m73D sq8DEFBdZ5eEkj1dCyx+t/ga6x2rHyc8Sl86oK1tvAkwBNsfKou3v+jP/l14a7DGBvrmlYjO 59o3t6inu6H7pt7OL6u6BQj7DoMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBBvZyq1zXEw6Rg38yk3e EPcA/4NaBQJonNqrBQkmWAihAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NaKtMQALAJ8PzprBEXbXcEXwDKQu+P/vts IfUb1UNMfMV76BicGa5NCZnJNQASDP/+bFg6O3gx5NbhHHPeaWz/VxlOmYHokHodOvtL0WCC 8A5PEP8tOk6029Z+J+xUcMrJClNVFpzVvOpb1lCbhjwAV465Hy+NUSbbUiRxdzNQtLtgZzOV Zw7jxUCs4UUZLQTCuBpFgb15bBxYZ/BL9MbzxPxvfUQIPbnzQMcqtpUs21CMK2PdfCh5c4gS sDci6D5/ZIBw94UQWmGpM/O1ilGXde2ZzzGYl64glmccD8e87OnEgKnH3FbnJnT4iJchtSvx yJNi1+t0+qDti4m88+/9IuPqCKb6Stl+s2dnLtJNrjXBGJtsQG/sRpqsJz5x1/2nPJSRMsx9 5YfqbdrJSOFXDzZ8/r82HgQEtUvlSXNaXCa95ez0UkOG7+bDm2b3s0XahBQeLVCH0mw3RAQg r7xDAYKIrAwfHHmMTnBQDPJwVqxJjVNr7yBic4yfzVWGCGNE4DnOW0vcIeoyhy9vnIa3w1uZ 3iyY2Nsd7JxfKu1PRhCGwXzRw5TlfEsoRI7V9A8isUCoqE2Dzh3FvYHVeX4Us+bRL/oqareJ CIFqgYMyvHj7Q06kTKmauOe4Nf0l0qEkIuIzfoLJ3qr5UyXc2hLtWyT9Ir+lYlX9efqh7mOY qIws/H2t In-Reply-To: <7b414e68-4d0b-4d2b-a664-bbbdf314c0d3@intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2/23/26 16:14, Dave Hansen wrote: > On 2/23/26 03:27, David Hildenbrand (Arm) wrote: > ... >>> BTW, x86-64 SysV ABI allows for 64k page size: >>> >>>     Systems are permitted to use any power-of-two page size between >>>     4KB and 64KB, inclusive. >>> >>> But it doesn't work in practice. >> >> Even in well controlled environments you would run in a hyperscaler? > > I think what Kirill is trying to say is that "it breaks userspace". ;) Yes. Probably similar to Intel proposing an actual 64k page size. Expected. :) > > A hyperscaler (or other "embedded" environment) might be willing or able > to go fix up userspace breakage. I would suspect our high frequency > trading friends would be all over this if it shaved a microsecond off > their receive times. > > The more important question is what it breaks and how badly it breaks > things. 5-level paging, for instance, broke some JITs that historically > used the new (>48) upper virtual address bits for metadata. The gains > from 5-level paging were big enough and the userspace breakage was > confined and fixable enough that 5-level paging was viable. > > I'm not sure which side a larger base page side will fall on, though. Is > it going to be an out-of-tree hack that a few folks use, or will it be > more like 5-level paging and be good enough that it goes into mainline? Just thinking about VMAs spanning partial pages makes me shiver. Or A single page spanning multiple VMAs. I haven't seen the code yet, but I am certain that I will not like it. I'm happy to be proven wrong :) -- Cheers, David