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Goncalves" , Andreas Ziegler , Felix Moessbauer , Florian Bezdeka References: <3f7b7ce1-6dd4-4a4e-9789-4c0cbde057bd@siemens.com> <20250409132149.rFrzBCrP@linutronix.de> Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=jan.kiszka@siemens.com; keydata= xsFNBGZY+hkBEACkdtFD81AUVtTVX+UEiUFs7ZQPQsdFpzVmr6R3D059f+lzr4Mlg6KKAcNZ uNUqthIkgLGWzKugodvkcCK8Wbyw+1vxcl4Lw56WezLsOTfu7oi7Z0vp1XkrLcM0tofTbClW xMA964mgUlBT2m/J/ybZd945D0wU57k/smGzDAxkpJgHBrYE/iJWcu46jkGZaLjK4xcMoBWB I6hW9Njxx3Ek0fpLO3876bszc8KjcHOulKreK+ezyJ01Hvbx85s68XWN6N2ulLGtk7E/sXlb 79hylHy5QuU9mZdsRjjRGJb0H9Buzfuz0XrcwOTMJq7e7fbN0QakjivAXsmXim+s5dlKlZjr L3ILWte4ah7cGgqc06nFb5jOhnGnZwnKJlpuod3pc/BFaFGtVHvyoRgxJ9tmDZnjzMfu8YrA +MVv6muwbHnEAeh/f8e9O+oeouqTBzgcaWTq81IyS56/UD6U5GHet9Pz1MB15nnzVcyZXIoC roIhgCUkcl+5m2Z9G56bkiUcFq0IcACzjcRPWvwA09ZbRHXAK/ao/+vPAIMnU6OTx3ejsbHn oh6VpHD3tucIt+xA4/l3LlkZMt5FZjFdkZUuAVU6kBAwElNBCYcrrLYZBRkSGPGDGYZmXAW/ VkNUVTJkRg6MGIeqZmpeoaV2xaIGHBSTDX8+b0c0hT/Bgzjv8QARAQABzSNKYW4gS2lzemth IDxqYW4ua2lzemthQHNpZW1lbnMuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBABMZH11cs99cr20+2mdhQqf QXvYBQJmWPvXAhsDBQkFo5qABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGmdhQqfQXvY zPAP/jGiVJ2VgPcRWt2P8FbByfrJJAPCsos+SZpncRi7tl9yTEpS+t57h7myEKPdB3L+kxzg K3dt1UhYp4FeIHA3jpJYaFvD7kNZJZ1cU55QXrJI3xu/xfB6VhCs+VAUlt7XhOsOmTQqCpH7 pRcZ5juxZCOxXG2fTQTQo0gfF5+PQwQYUp0NdTbVox5PTx5RK3KfPqmAJsBKdwEaIkuY9FbM 9lGg8XBNzD2R/13cCd4hRrZDtyegrtocpBAruVqOZhsMb/h7Wd0TGoJ/zJr3w3WnDM08c+RA 5LHMbiA29MXq1KxlnsYDfWB8ts3HIJ3ROBvagA20mbOm26ddeFjLdGcBTrzbHbzCReEtN++s gZneKsYiueFDTxXjUOJgp8JDdVPM+++axSMo2js8TwVefTfCYt0oWMEqlQqSqgQwIuzpRO6I ik7HAFq8fssy2cY8Imofbj77uKz0BNZC/1nGG1OI9cU2jHrqsn1i95KaS6fPu4EN6XP/Gi/O 0DxND+HEyzVqhUJkvXUhTsOzgzWAvW9BlkKRiVizKM6PLsVm/XmeapGs4ir/U8OzKI+SM3R8 VMW8eovWgXNUQ9F2vS1dHO8eRn2UqDKBZSo+qCRWLRtsqNzmU4N0zuGqZSaDCvkMwF6kIRkD ZkDjjYQtoftPGchLBTUzeUa2gfOr1T4xSQUHhPL8zsFNBGZY+hkBEADb5quW4M0eaWPIjqY6 aC/vHCmpELmS/HMa5zlA0dWlxCPEjkchN8W4PB+NMOXFEJuKLLFs6+s5/KlNok/kGKg4fITf Vcd+BQd/YRks3qFifckU+kxoXpTc2bksTtLuiPkcyFmjBph/BGms35mvOA0OaEO6fQbauiHa QnYrgUQM+YD4uFoQOLnWTPmBjccoPuiJDafzLxwj4r+JH4fA/4zzDa5OFbfVq3ieYGqiBrtj tBFv5epVvGK1zoQ+Rc+h5+dCWPwC2i3cXTUVf0woepF8mUXFcNhY+Eh8vvh1lxfD35z2CJeY txMcA44Lp06kArpWDjGJddd+OTmUkFWeYtAdaCpj/GItuJcQZkaaTeiHqPPrbvXM361rtvaw XFUzUlvoW1Sb7/SeE/BtWoxkeZOgsqouXPTjlFLapvLu5g9MPNimjkYqukASq/+e8MMKP+EE v3BAFVFGvNE3UlNRh+ppBqBUZiqkzg4q2hfeTjnivgChzXlvfTx9M6BJmuDnYAho4BA6vRh4 Dr7LYTLIwGjguIuuQcP2ENN+l32nidy154zCEp5/Rv4K8SYdVegrQ7rWiULgDz9VQWo2zAjo TgFKg3AE3ujDy4V2VndtkMRYpwwuilCDQ+Bpb5ixfbFyZ4oVGs6F3jhtWN5Uu43FhHSCqUv8 FCzl44AyGulVYU7hTQARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEAExkfXVyz31yvbT7aZ2FCp9Be9gFAmZY +hkCGwwFCQWjmoAACgkQaZ2FCp9Be9hN3g/8CdNqlOfBZGCFNZ8Kf4tpRpeN3TGmekGRpohU bBMvHYiWW8SvmCgEuBokS+Lx3pyPJQCYZDXLCq47gsLdnhVcQ2ZKNCrr9yhrj6kHxe1Sqv1S MhxD8dBqW6CFe/mbiK9wEMDIqys7L0Xy/lgCFxZswlBW3eU2Zacdo0fDzLiJm9I0C9iPZzkJ gITjoqsiIi/5c3eCY2s2OENL9VPXiH1GPQfHZ23ouiMf+ojVZ7kycLjz+nFr5A14w/B7uHjz uL6tnA+AtGCredDne66LSK3HD0vC7569sZ/j8kGKjlUtC+zm0j03iPI6gi8YeCn9b4F8sLpB lBdlqo9BB+uqoM6F8zMfIfDsqjB0r/q7WeJaI8NKfFwNOGPuo93N+WUyBi2yYCXMOgBUifm0 T6Hbf3SHQpbA56wcKPWJqAC2iFaxNDowcJij9LtEqOlToCMtDBekDwchRvqrWN1mDXLg+av8 qH4kDzsqKX8zzTzfAWFxrkXA/kFpR3JsMzNmvextkN2kOLCCHkym0zz5Y3vxaYtbXG2wTrqJ 8WpkWIE8STUhQa9AkezgucXN7r6uSrzW8IQXxBInZwFIyBgM0f/fzyNqzThFT15QMrYUqhhW ZffO4PeNJOUYfXdH13A6rbU0y6xE7Okuoa01EqNi9yqyLA8gPgg/DhOpGtK8KokCsdYsTbk= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; 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Those have >>> a fairly high overlap with what was described here. Our baselines so >>> far: 6.1-rt, Debian and vanilla. We are currently preparing experiments >>> with latest mainline. >>> >>> While this thread remained silent afterwards, we have found [1][2][3] as >>> apparently related. But this means we are still with this RT bug, even >>> in latest 6.15-rc1? >> >> Not sure the commits are related. The problem here is that RW locks are >> not really real time friendly. Frederick had a simple fix to it >> https://lore.kernel.org/all/20210825132754.GA895675@lothringen/ >> >> but yeah. The alternative, which I didn't look into, would be to replace >> the reader side with RCU so we would just have the writer lock. That >> mean we need to RW lock because of performance… >> > > We know that epoll is not a good idea for RT programs. However, our > problem is that already non-RT programs manage to lock up an RT-enabled > system. On second glance, Frederic's patch would probably also avoid the issue we are seeing as it should bring PI to the CFS-throttled read-lock holder (which is now a write-lock holder). But given how old that proposal is, I assume the performance impact was even for the RT kernel too much, wasn't it? Jan -- Siemens AG, Foundational Technologies Linux Expert Center