From: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
To: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>
Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
dwalsh@redhat.com, "Schaufler, Casey" <casey.schaufler@intel.com>,
"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk" <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
"virtio-fs@redhat.com" <virtio-fs@redhat.com>,
"berrange@redhat.com" <berrange@redhat.com>,
linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
"selinux@vger.kernel.org" <selinux@vger.kernel.org>,
Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files if caller has CAP_SYS_RESOURCE
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:51:47 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <93e87539-29d1-2bed-9a79-ec378f6869b9@schaufler-ca.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YNtLtkkDMWye485A@work-vm>
On 6/29/2021 9:35 AM, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote:
> * Casey Schaufler (casey@schaufler-ca.com) wrote:
>> On 6/29/2021 8:20 AM, Vivek Goyal wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:38:15AM -0700, Casey Schaufler wrote:
>>>
>>> [..]
>>>>>>>> User xattrs are less protected than security xattrs. You are exposing the
>>>>>>>> security xattrs on the guest to the possible whims of a malicious, unprivileged
>>>>>>>> actor on the host. All it needs is the right UID.
>>>>>>> Yep, we realise that; but when you're mainly interested in making sure
>>>>>>> the guest can't attack the host, that's less worrying.
>>>>>> That's uncomfortable.
>>>>> Why exactly?
>>>> If a mechanism is designed with a known vulnerability you
>>>> fail your validation/evaluation efforts.
>>> We are working with the constraint that shared directory should not be
>>> accessible to unpriviliged users on host. And with that constraint, what
>>> you are referring to is not a vulnerability.
>> Sure, that's quite reasonable for your use case. It doesn't mean
>> that the vulnerability doesn't exist, it means you've mitigated it.
>>
>>
>>>> Your mechanism is
>>>> less general because other potential use cases may not be
>>>> as cavalier about the vulnerability.
>>> Prefixing xattrs with "user.virtiofsd" is just one of the options.
>>> virtiofsd has the capability to prefix "trusted.virtiofsd" as well.
>>> We have not chosen that because we don't want to give it CAP_SYS_ADMIN.
>>>
>>> So other use cases which don't like prefixing "user.virtiofsd", can
>>> give CAP_SYS_ADMIN and work with it.
>>>
>>>> I think that you can
>>>> approach this differently, get a solution that does everything
>>>> you want, and avoid the known problem.
>>> What's the solution? Are you referring to using "trusted.*" instead? But
>>> that has its own problem of giving CAP_SYS_ADMIN to virtiofsd.
>> I'm coming to the conclusion that xattr namespaces, analogous
>> to user namespaces, are the correct solution. They generalize
>> for multiple filesystem and LSM use cases. The use of namespaces
>> is well understood, especially in the container community. It
>> looks to me as if it would address your use case swimmingly.
> Yeh; although the details of getting the semantics right is tricky;
> in particular, the stuff which clears capabilitiies/setuid/etc on writes
> - should it clear xattrs that represent capabilities? If the host
> performs a write, should it clear mapped xattrs capabilities? If the
> namespace performs a write should it clear just the mapped ones or the
> host ones as well? Our virtiofsd code performs acrobatics to make
> sure they get cleared on write that are painful.
Dealing with tricky semantics is the difference between a feature
and a hack. Doing so in a way that other people can take advantage
of the feature is the hallmark of a feature well done.
>
> Dave
>
>>> Thanks
>>> Vivek
>>>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-29 16:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-25 19:12 Vivek Goyal
2021-06-25 19:12 ` [PATCH 1/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files with CAP_SYS_RESOURCE Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 12:33 ` Christian Brauner
2021-06-28 15:00 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 3:13 ` [xattr] 8d8cd767b6: ltp.setxattr02.fail kernel test robot
2021-06-29 12:59 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-25 21:49 ` [RFC PATCH 0/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files if caller has CAP_SYS_RESOURCE Schaufler, Casey
2021-06-28 11:58 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-28 13:17 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 13:36 ` Daniel Walsh
2021-06-28 16:04 ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-28 16:28 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-28 17:41 ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29 9:00 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-29 14:38 ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29 15:20 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 16:13 ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29 16:35 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-29 16:51 ` Casey Schaufler [this message]
2021-06-29 17:35 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 20:28 ` Daniel Walsh
2021-06-30 4:12 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30 8:07 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-30 14:47 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30 15:01 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-30 19:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30 20:32 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01 8:48 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-07-01 12:21 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01 13:10 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01 16:58 ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-30 16:09 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-30 14:27 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 16:25 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-28 17:22 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 18:55 ` Daniel Walsh
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