mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
To: "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>
Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	dwalsh@redhat.com, "Schaufler, Casey" <casey.schaufler@intel.com>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk" <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"virtio-fs@redhat.com" <virtio-fs@redhat.com>,
	"berrange@redhat.com" <berrange@redhat.com>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	"selinux@vger.kernel.org" <selinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files if caller has CAP_SYS_RESOURCE
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:51:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <93e87539-29d1-2bed-9a79-ec378f6869b9@schaufler-ca.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YNtLtkkDMWye485A@work-vm>

On 6/29/2021 9:35 AM, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote:
> * Casey Schaufler (casey@schaufler-ca.com) wrote:
>> On 6/29/2021 8:20 AM, Vivek Goyal wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 07:38:15AM -0700, Casey Schaufler wrote:
>>>
>>> [..]
>>>>>>>> User xattrs are less protected than security xattrs. You are exposing the
>>>>>>>> security xattrs on the guest to the possible whims of a malicious, unprivileged
>>>>>>>> actor on the host. All it needs is the right UID.
>>>>>>> Yep, we realise that; but when you're mainly interested in making sure
>>>>>>> the guest can't attack the host, that's less worrying.
>>>>>> That's uncomfortable.
>>>>> Why exactly?
>>>> If a mechanism is designed with a known vulnerability you
>>>> fail your validation/evaluation efforts.
>>> We are working with the constraint that shared directory should not be
>>> accessible to unpriviliged users on host. And with that constraint, what
>>> you are referring to is not a vulnerability.
>> Sure, that's quite reasonable for your use case. It doesn't mean
>> that the vulnerability doesn't exist, it means you've mitigated it. 
>>
>>
>>>> Your mechanism is
>>>> less general because other potential use cases may not be
>>>> as cavalier about the vulnerability.
>>> Prefixing xattrs with "user.virtiofsd" is just one of the options.
>>> virtiofsd has the capability to prefix "trusted.virtiofsd" as well.
>>> We have not chosen that because we don't want to give it CAP_SYS_ADMIN.
>>>
>>> So other use cases which don't like prefixing "user.virtiofsd", can
>>> give CAP_SYS_ADMIN and work with it.
>>>
>>>> I think that you can
>>>> approach this differently, get a solution that does everything
>>>> you want, and avoid the known problem.
>>> What's the solution? Are you referring to using "trusted.*" instead? But
>>> that has its own problem of giving CAP_SYS_ADMIN to virtiofsd.
>> I'm coming to the conclusion that xattr namespaces, analogous
>> to user namespaces, are the correct solution. They generalize
>> for multiple filesystem and LSM use cases. The use of namespaces
>> is well understood, especially in the container community. It
>> looks to me as if it would address your use case swimmingly.
> Yeh; although the details of getting the semantics right is tricky;
> in particular, the stuff which clears capabilitiies/setuid/etc on writes
> - should it clear xattrs that represent capabilities?  If the host
>   performs a write, should it clear mapped xattrs capabilities?  If the
> namespace performs a write should it clear just the mapped ones or the
> host ones as well?  Our virtiofsd code performs acrobatics to make
> sure they get cleared on write that are painful.

Dealing with tricky semantics is the difference between a feature
and a hack. Doing so in a way that other people can take advantage
of the feature is the hallmark of a feature well done.

>
> Dave
>
>>> Thanks
>>> Vivek
>>>


  reply	other threads:[~2021-06-29 16:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-25 19:12 Vivek Goyal
2021-06-25 19:12 ` [PATCH 1/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files with CAP_SYS_RESOURCE Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 12:33   ` Christian Brauner
2021-06-28 15:00   ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29  3:13   ` [xattr] 8d8cd767b6: ltp.setxattr02.fail kernel test robot
2021-06-29 12:59     ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-25 21:49 ` [RFC PATCH 0/1] xattr: Allow user.* xattr on symlink/special files if caller has CAP_SYS_RESOURCE Schaufler, Casey
2021-06-28 11:58   ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-28 13:17   ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 13:36     ` Daniel Walsh
2021-06-28 16:04       ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-28 16:28         ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-28 17:41           ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29  9:00             ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-29 14:38               ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29 15:20                 ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 16:13                   ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-29 16:35                     ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-29 16:51                       ` Casey Schaufler [this message]
2021-06-29 17:35                     ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 20:28                       ` Daniel Walsh
2021-06-30  4:12                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30  8:07                           ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-30 14:47                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30 15:01                               ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-06-30 19:59                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-30 20:32                                   ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01  8:48                                   ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2021-07-01 12:21                                     ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01 13:10                                     ` Vivek Goyal
2021-07-01 16:58                                       ` Casey Schaufler
2021-06-30 16:09                               ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-30 14:27                           ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-29 16:25                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-06-28 17:22         ` Vivek Goyal
2021-06-28 18:55         ` Daniel Walsh

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=93e87539-29d1-2bed-9a79-ec378f6869b9@schaufler-ca.com \
    --to=casey@schaufler-ca.com \
    --cc=berrange@redhat.com \
    --cc=casey.schaufler@intel.com \
    --cc=dgilbert@redhat.com \
    --cc=dwalsh@redhat.com \
    --cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=selinux@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=vgoyal@redhat.com \
    --cc=viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk \
    --cc=virtio-fs@redhat.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®