From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S939954AbXHIQub (ORCPT ); Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:50:31 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1763581AbXHIQuP (ORCPT ); Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:50:15 -0400 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.238]:38489 "EHLO wx-out-0506.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755146AbXHIQuM (ORCPT ); Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:50:12 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Do+KXmUCHPwmGtdTETr2NhAIqFQ3nSVwWirjHcJqEFRAmNoVybZZqOwMiXy649rk2ELH47HoBlovUx0DSImnPGzt1pCH5QM+jM81UHluU/UI50hKYQH4G2VnBhDSePdRzyME62od0yKIPNoFXBjmGUp1Dx9B06g2GQJb/+QcCFI= Message-ID: <9a8748490708090950v2e38a250t24105acb6525acfe@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:50:10 +0200 From: "Jesper Juhl" To: "Greg KH" Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] UIO: Documentation Cc: "Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Hans J. Koch" In-Reply-To: <20070809071932.GA22318@suse.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070718232332.GA4620@kroah.com> <11848012053678-git-send-email-gregkh@suse.de> <11848012122374-git-send-email-gregkh@suse.de> <9a8748490708081436g23c8f01cga585d6612b380f16@mail.gmail.com> <14166.1186611154@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <9a8748490708081603k65746311sad595947fd5ab971@mail.gmail.com> <20070809071932.GA22318@suse.de> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 09/08/07, Greg KH wrote: > On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 01:03:39AM +0200, Jesper Juhl wrote: > > > > > I think the only way to avoid it is to not provide something like UIO. > > Problem is, things like UIO provide a real solution for a wide range of > different types of devices. Like the one provided in the kernel right > now, and a bunch of others that I am currently discussing with different > manufacturers (think high-speed DSPs that just want to give userspace > direct access to the card and have the kernel get the hell out of the > way so data can be read and processed as fast as possible.) > Please understand that I'm not saying UIO isn't potentially useful, nor am I saying that it won't potentially give us support for a bunch of new hardware. All I'm trying to say is that, to me at least, it is trying to buy us those new drivers in a way that encourages creating those drivers as closed source software- *that* is all I'm having issues with - that is what I think is a step backwards - something that may give us a short-term gain but will make us lose out long-term. > And also realize that some types of systems have been doing this very > same kind of kernel/userspace interface for many years, namely X :) > That something has been going on for years doesn't in itself make it a good argument for that model. ;-) > As for the legalities of using closed source userspace code with the UIO > interface, consult a lawyer if you have questions, and be sure to bring > up Alan's comments about derivative works :) > I'm not arguing against closed source applications in userspace. That is of course OK. What I'm arguing about is a kernel interface that encourages closed source (userspace) *drivers*. -- Jesper Juhl Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html