From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1525813687; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=Pbq7JOFFcDRhur+NyyU31otjj/DQ97hNd9zv1ph1Wu4DzrtzLnMhWl8k2sBWlgutUi b+dWsdzYDU97wpC3R05dFmmKTheqAqKWltYE1oLctTN+QqqwRRlAyMlcz+buNC6U3Izp ITsEKZ6q3Bl2gPsZE85RlLViQRO6IwgBc6Sjo9F6d7mdUK8xEYTlkcjMxFjRDy4X5R4g qHfPtJzBAL11AOEjktdLlQyQ1caghhdANGTL7ASyQm3knWze43YKy5i1ZsuSVzB/lvCh YIEU9v/0uWnJhE6lyKYiDwG26KYnrVAp8kImBlOiJQRpXd+hVYidvkip3rHU0DQ6MzGU fBiQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:dkim-signature :arc-authentication-results; bh=r0l2tPwo0X8O9wHZOTdHSipnEaJWMP851vRZYSGwOMA=; b=E+nUJcXa1A7jewBzEH2wjYHWzDZlHAzIjXoqzl44pCzI31VeBh9IttNQPpAzIE1/vy EiUZ3pePNdbtWvG+d1+iHlMhfBoy6pb8nVyNLOmyncdJqezfRP1pTzaNqBbUJ9TP/8cY B5r7txg+hkoLheMnsQhhH0wITkjrfG77xf72SWC6EpXKDHN3ZueWHQW2c6Db5FzqGL8x FMHO000o0dB0kGqpRj3u1h0V8SMVTYNp5Sv8dNgJKOTJnWu9Vmf69wLva1BBcBBVFYxV dh1q4Ax80nERwc8vhAR2Y3GCzmjayei5ATGIRtgDG6gKynC4uTFOoyKIo+zZ4SmGwIjQ paIw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@googlemail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Q14Co3oO; spf=pass (google.com: domain of zarniwhoop73@googlemail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zarniwhoop73@googlemail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=googlemail.com Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@googlemail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Q14Co3oO; spf=pass (google.com: domain of zarniwhoop73@googlemail.com designates 209.85.220.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zarniwhoop73@googlemail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=googlemail.com X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZpujHl1pH1LBn+qtd1ra6v7ZpaVSK0svB2/myX1CQ7FDdM2u62aSCkKiTcTFhBnvEFsxCnjXX2zsJO37hZnVS4= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180508202912.GC8514@sasha-vm> References: <20180501211551.GI2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180502194632.GB18390@sasha-vm> <20180503020550.GP2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> <20180508023439.GA8514@sasha-vm> <20180508034820.GE999@thunk.org> <20180508202912.GC8514@sasha-vm> From: Ken Moffat Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 22:00:49 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches To: Sasha Levin Cc: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Tony Lindgren , Greg KH , "w@1wt.eu" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-getmail-retrieved-from-mailbox: INBOX X-GMAIL-THRID: =?utf-8?q?1599280464106480109?= X-GMAIL-MSGID: =?utf-8?q?1599931613413216524?= X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On 8 May 2018 at 21:29, Sasha Levin wrote: > > This is interesting. We have a group of power users who are testing out > -rc releases, who are usually happy to test out a fast moving target and > provide helpful reports back. We also have a group who run a -stable > kernel (-stable build/distro/android/etc) who want to avoid having to > report bugs to us. > > What we don't have is a group of people who use Linus's actual releases > (not the -rc stuff, but the actual point releases). Power users will > move on to the next kernel, and -stable folks won't touch that release > until there's a corresponding -stable. I resent that assumption :) As a 'prosumer' in this context, I try to test an early -rc (usually not until -rc2, sometimes not until later, depending on what I see on this list), and then intermittently I spread the testing to more of my desktop machines using later -rc versions. Once linus releases .0 I hope to move my current systems to that in the next few days. But as always, other things (sometimes real life, sometimes just new changes in userspace) intervene. After that, I will pick up Greg's latest if I build a new system before the next kernel release, or if I become aware of something critical (for my usage) in it. And then probably 4 or 5 weeks after linus's release I will start the next cycle of testing -rc verisons. So no, I rarely test Greg's current stable version, but there _is_ a period of some weeks where I run .0 kernels. =C4=B8en > > Even rawhide, like Josh mentioned, will just fill back with the merge > window commits after the release of an older kernel. > > So the problem I'm seeing is that since a merge window is open only once > every 2-3 months people will sometimes try to push poorly tested code > just to make that merge window. Additionally, as later -rc releases > start showing up people will again merge poorly tested fixes just to > make it in time for that release. > > For both cases, people will push poorly tested code in the kernel just > because they want to make it in time for a kernel release that no one > will actually use. > > What if, instead, Linus doesn't actually ever release a point release? > We can make the merge window open more often, and since there's no > actual release, people won't rush to push fixes in later -rc cycles. > > We take away the incentive to push poorly tested code. Maintainers still > free to commit anything they'd like, but there's no reason to commit > code they're not confident of just to make it to a random release no one > will use. > > Merge window will happen more often, so there's no real reason to rush > things in a particular window, and since -stable releases every week > there's no rush to push a fix in since the next release is just a week > away.