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Sat, 24 Oct 2026 16:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([73.222.46.22]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a92af1059eb24-198a249c331sm24522674c88.17.2026.10.24.16.59.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 24 Oct 2026 16:59:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2026 16:59:44 -0700 Message-Id: Cc: =?utf-8?q?Micka=C3=ABl_Sala=C3=BCn?= , =?utf-8?q?G=C3=BCnther_Noack?= , "Paul Moore" , "James Morris" , "Serge E. Hallyn" , "Shuah Khan" , "Jonathan Corbet" , "John Ericson" , , , , Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/3] landlock: Add access rights on created files From: "Farid Zakaria" To: "Justin Suess" , "Farid Zakaria" X-Mailer: aerc 0.22.0 References: <20261024-landlock-created-rights-v1-0-77c8db3f6bd2@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Hi Justin, Thank you for engaging me on this RFC. Admittedly, I have not followed the landlock discussions closely. This was an idea I had concocted while thinking how we can make Nix sandboxing faster. (I'm also exploring the space with AI - so I'm a landlock newbie but not a Nix newbie.) Mickael, et al: I see that sashiko found some legitimate concerns. I can fix that up in a V2 if we like the general idea and want to continue exploring it. On Sat Oct 24, 2026 at 3:03 PM PDT, Justin Suess wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2026 at 05:43:26PM -0400, Justin Suess wrote: >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2026 at 01:39:16PM -0700, Farid Zakaria wrote: >> > This is a proposal for an idea to add support for landlock to work >> > better with build systems such as Nix where they want to apply >> > restrictions but the paths may not yet exist. >> >=20 >> > TL;DR; >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >=20 >> > Landlock rules attach to inodes that exist when a ruleset is built. >> > That makes a directory shared between trusted and sandboxed tasks hard >> > to confine: the sandbox may create entries there with >> > LANDLOCK_ACCESS_FS_MAKE_*, but no rule can name those entries ahead of >> > time, and granting read access on the directory to cover them exposes >> > every other entry as well. This series adds a rule flag that grants >> > access rights on the entries a domain creates in a directory, instead >> > of on the directory. >> Hi, >>=20 >> I'll chime in since I run nix and have a little bit of familiarity. >>=20 >> Looking at my (admittedly bloated) nix store. >>=20 >> [justin@zenbox ~]$ ls /nix/store | wc -l >> 259356 >>=20 >> That's a lot of inodes. And a nix derivation creates hundreds if not >> thousands potentially throughout it's build. >>=20 >> My main concern is that rulesets are generally considered >> immutable after enforcement. This allows for well-defined semantics on >> inheritence. This from my understanding would mutate the ruleset after >> it's already enforced, so changes wouldn't be copied to inherited >> domains automatically. > > * nvm on this, it looks like you are adding them to a different > heirarchy. The point still stands though on the inode pinning, which you > pointed out. > > On the cost: only entries created directly in the directory that has the rule get recorded. For Nix that is /nix/store, so a build records one entry per output ($out, $dev, ...). Nothing is recorded for $out/foo or anything else under $out. Access there is allowed because the path walk at access time reaches $out and finds it in the recorded set, the same way a rule on a directory covers what is beneath it. Existing store paths are never recorded, so the store's size does not matter... right? A bad actor could still create many entries in the store (touch /nix/store/junk1 ... junk1000000), and each one stays pinned until the domain is freed. I can add a per-domain limit on the number of created entries. Nix only needs as many as the derivation has outputs ($out, $dev etc..). >>=20 >> My other concern is with the overhead of automatically generating an ins= erting >> a rule for every new inode that gets created. It seems like a complex >> way to tackle this problem. >>=20 >> But beyond that, let's go back to your usecase. >>=20 >> .... >>=20 >> Basically from what I'm seeing you want to grant some access to certain >> subdirectories (including newly created ones) but exclude others. >>=20 >> Presumably in the nix case, you want to grant /nix/store/{abc,efg,hij} a= nd NOT >> /nix/store/{xyz}, but still allow /nix/store/{foo} (the derivation >> output) to be created and written to. This would allow the nix build to = only >> have access to certain inputs, while being able to write to the /nix/sto= re >> and produce an output. This is a valid usecase that Landlock cannot toda= y >> accomplish. >>=20 >> There was this NO_INHERIT series I proposed a little while back. >> [1] It's sort of the inverse of this (removes accesses inherited from >> parents rather than granting new access) but would accomplish this >> goal. >>=20 >> With NO_INHERIT, you could grant whatever access rights you want by defa= ult on >> the parent directory, and place NO_INHERIT on any specific entries you >> don't want to have inherit those rights.=20 >> > It seems like NO_INHERIT too might scale poorly for the usecase. Since th= en > you are trading O(store) for O(inputs) so not much better (strictly > worse). > > Thoughts? > > Justin On NO_INHERIT: besides the O(store) cost, other builds keep adding paths to the store while this one runs. Those new paths have no NO_INHERIT rule, so they would inherit the store-wide access and be readable by the build. With the CREATED flag, nothing is readable unless a rule covers it. >> So for nix use case, you could grant no_inherit on everything except the >> inputs you need, then add READ/WRITE/MKDIR etc on /nix/store. The new >> directories would inherit this by default, while the ones you added >> NO_INHERIT on would be restricted. >>=20 >> Additionally, you should also examine the mutable domains proposal by >> Tingmao Wang, which could also facilitate this usecase as well [2] (i.e = by >> dynamically adding and removing rules with some fanotify/inotify glue). >>=20 >> That being said, neither of these two patchsets / proposals are merged, >> and the playing field is still open on this. >>=20 >> So the problem you are pointing to is legitamate, but the solution still >> needs to be considered carefully to avoid complexity. >>=20 >> Justin >>=20 >> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/20260621035223.2651547= -1-utilityemal77@gmail.com/ >> [2] https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/cover.1741047969.git.m= @maowtm.org/ >> > Motivation >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >=20 >> > The motivating user is the Nix build sandbox. Every Nix build runs in >> > its own sandbox, and a build may only read its declared inputs in >> > /nix/store and must be able to write and read back the outputs it >> > creates there. Nix enforces this with a private mount namespace: it >> > creates an empty store directory and bind-mounts each input path into >> > it, one mount per input. Nix has paid this per-input cost since the >> > sandbox was introduced [1]. >> > >> > The cost is paid per build and grows with the size of the input >> > closure. Nix is moving towards much finer-grained builds (many small >> > derivations instead of a few large ones), so the number of sandboxes >> > grows while each build's own work shrinks, and the sandbox setup is >> > becoming the bottleneck. A typical build has hundreds of inputs; large >> > ones have thousands. >> >=20 >> > A microbenchmark sets up and tears down a Nix-like sandbox (user, >> > mount, PID, IPC, UTS and network namespaces, pivot_root into a chroot, >> > removing the chroot afterwards). It compares one bind mount per input >> > with a single bind mount of the whole store plus one Landlock rule per >> > input. Median latency per sandbox, one sandbox at a time, Linux 7.1, >> > ext4, 16 cores: >> >=20 >> > inputs bind mount per input one bind mount + Landlock speedup >> > 10 3.2 ms 2.3 ms 1.4x >> > 100 11.6 ms 2.8 ms 4.1x >> > 1000 79.3 ms 6.4 ms 12.4x >> > 5000 400.1 ms 24.4 ms 16.4x >> >=20 >> > With Landlock, an input costs an O_PATH open and a landlock_add_rule() >> > call: there is a single mount, and no mountpoint directory to create >> > before the build and remove after it (removing the 1000 empty >> > mountpoints alone took 17 ms). >> >=20 >> > The single bind mount is only sound if the store listing and the >> > undeclared store paths stay unreadable while the build can still use >> > its outputs. Without this series, covering the outputs requires a rule >> > on /nix/store itself, which makes every store path readable again. >> >=20 >> > [1] https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/179 >> >=20 >> > Series >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >=20 >> > Patch 1 lets an LSM observe inode creation through the >> > inode_init_security hook when no LSM provides an xattr. Patch 2 adds >> > the LANDLOCK_ADD_RULE_CREATED flag for path-beneath rules and bumps th= e >> > ABI to 13. Patch 3 adds selftests. >> >=20 >> > Testing >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >=20 >> > The series applies to the Landlock next branch (3e271a27c46f) and was >> > tested on Linux 7.3 with that branch applied. >> >=20 >> > Without patch 2, the five new tests and the ABI version check fail. >> >=20 >> > Open questions >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >=20 >> > - A created inode stays pinned until the layer's hierarchy is freed, s= o a >> > sandbox that creates many entries in such a directory keeps them all= in >> > memory. Should this be bounded? >> >=20 >> > - Creation is detected in inode_init_security, so on filesystems that = do >> > not call security_inode_init_security() created entries get no right= s. >> > Is there a better hook? >> >=20 >> > - Through overlayfs, created entries get no rights either, because the >> > upper inode is created with the mounter's credentials. Should overla= yfs >> > be handled, e.g. via security_dentry_create_files_as()? >> >=20 >> > - A file renamed or linked in keeps only the rights it had at its sour= ce. >> > Should it get none instead? >> >=20 >> > --- >> > Farid Zakaria (3): >> > lsm: Call inode_init_security hooks without xattrs >> > landlock: Add access rights on created files >> > selftests/landlock: Test LANDLOCK_ADD_RULE_CREATED >> >=20 >> > Documentation/userspace-api/landlock.rst | 42 +++++ >> > include/uapi/linux/landlock.h | 18 +++ >> > security/landlock/domain.c | 182 ++++++++++++++++++= ++- >> > security/landlock/domain.h | 28 ++++ >> > security/landlock/fs.c | 176 ++++++++++++++++++= +-- >> > security/landlock/object.h | 6 + >> > security/landlock/ruleset.c | 6 + >> > security/landlock/ruleset.h | 14 ++ >> > security/landlock/syscalls.c | 20 ++- >> > security/security.c | 9 +- >> > tools/testing/selftests/landlock/base_test.c | 2 +- >> > tools/testing/selftests/landlock/fs_test.c | 227 ++++++++++++++++++= +++++++++ >> > 12 files changed, 703 insertions(+), 27 deletions(-) >> > --- >> > base-commit: 3e271a27c46fd591d1011c7de5a644a41e2010f1 >> > change-id: 20261024-landlock-created-rights-9340b00a8c4d >> >=20 >> > Best regards, >> > -- =20 >> > Farid Zakaria >> >=20 >> >=20