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From: Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>
To: Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>,
	Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>, Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@redhat.com>
Cc: Oliver Xymoron <oxymoron@waste.org>,
	Christer Weinigel <wingel@hog.ctrl-c.liu.se>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The direction linux is taking
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:14:28 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E16LiPl-00010E-00@starship.berlin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20011229190600.2556C36DE6@hog.ctrl-c.liu.se> <E16Ky48-0003hT-00@starship.berlin> <20020101053446.HLQO11986.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>
In-Reply-To: <20020101053446.HLQO11986.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>

On December 31, 2001 10:33 pm, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Monday 31 December 2001 03:45 am, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > On December 29, 2001 11:04 pm, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 04:03:34PM -0500, Benjamin LaHaise wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:37:49AM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > > > If you have N people trying to patch the same file, you'll require N
> > > > > releases and some poor shlep is going to have to resubmit their patch
> > > > > N-1 times before it gets in.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong.  Most patches are independant, and even touch different
> > > > functions.
> > >
> > > Really?  And the data which shows this absolute statement to be true is
> > > where?  I'm happy to believe data, but there is no data here.
> >
> > Ben's right.  Most patches are independant because the work divides itself
> > up that way, because people talk about this stuff (on IRC) and cooperate,
> > and because the tree structure evolves to support the natural divisions ;)
> 
> In a fan club, saying "andrea's the MM guy, talk to him" is only natural.  
> It's a meritocracy, he's alpha geek on call in that area right now.
> 
> In a fortune 500 bureaucracy, people are largely supposed to be 
> interchangeable cogs.  People's worth is measured in dollars, and somebody 
> worth $70k a year should be swappable with somebody else worth $70k/year.  
> (It's a bit more complex than that, there's certifications and experience, 
> but somebody with a BA and 2 years experience working on inflatable widgets 
> should be exchangeable with somebody else with a BA and 2 years experience 
> working on inflatable widgets.  If not, they'll "get up to speed", it's just 
> a question of acquiring experience...)
> 
> So having a single point of failure in the development process...  It's 
> unthinkable.  What if that guy decides to retire?  What if he gets hit by a 
> bus.  What if the competition hires him away?  What if he DEMANDS MORE MONEY? 
>  (It's all about money in a corporation.  It's all numbers.  The bottom line. 
>  So if the whole project depends on one guy, logically he'll ask for as much 
> salary as the project's worth.  That's a lot of how management thinks.)
> 
> So if you DO have someone breaking down the project into subsections, it's 
> unlikely to be a developer, it would be a manager assigning areas of 
> responsibility.  And shuffling them around from time to time so nobody gets 
> the idea they can't be replaced.  But it's easiest just to scatter 
> tasks over the group and keep things mixed up all the time...
> 
> Fan clubs are all individuals.  Bureaucracies try to eliminate the 
> individual: the automated assembly line with no humans in it is the 
> bureaucratic ideal...
> 
> Totally different paradigm.

Yes, that's all +5 insightful, except... what makes you think any one of the 
Linux core hackers is irreplaceable?  I know you didn't say that, but you
did say 'single point of failure', and it amounts to the same thing.

--
Daniel

  reply	other threads:[~2002-01-02 10:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-12-27 15:46 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 16:01 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 16:33   ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 16:30     ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 16:53       ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:03         ` Thomas Capricelli
2001-12-27 17:54           ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 16:57     ` Russell King
2001-12-27 17:11       ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 17:25         ` Erik Mouw
2001-12-27 18:05         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 18:24           ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 18:58             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 19:16               ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 19:29                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 19:46                   ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 19:57                   ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 20:07                     ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 20:12                       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 21:13                         ` Troy Benjegerdes
2001-12-27 21:18                           ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 21:28                     ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:37           ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 19:25             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:16               ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 19:33             ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2001-12-27 21:20             ` Legacy Fishtank
2001-12-27 20:10           ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 20:21             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:33               ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 20:41                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:50                   ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 21:43                     ` Troy Benjegerdes
2001-12-27 21:53                       ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 17:14                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 17:27                     ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-28  2:27                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-12-27 20:43             ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:52       ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:59       ` Andre Hedrick
2001-12-27 17:38     ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 17:55       ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 17:59       ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:38         ` Russell King
2001-12-28  4:03         ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-29 18:02           ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 19:06           ` Christer Weinigel
2001-12-29 19:18             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 19:37               ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 19:58                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 20:04                   ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 20:30                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 22:09                       ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 22:24                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:01                           ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 22:59                             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:09                               ` Alexander Viro
2001-12-29 23:07                             ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:19                               ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 23:24                                 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:33                                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:41                                     ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2001-12-31  8:51                             ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-29 23:04                           ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:29                             ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:35                               ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:59                                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-30  0:04                                   ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-30  0:25                                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 22:26                         ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:02                           ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 20:01                 ` Olivier Galibert
2001-12-29 20:04                 ` Dave Jones
2002-01-02 15:06                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-12-29 21:03                 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2001-12-29 22:04                   ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 22:58                     ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 23:14                       ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:33                         ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:38                           ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:47                             ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:50                             ` Atomic Killer Attack Fish
2001-12-30  2:36                         ` Alan Cox
2001-12-30  2:49                           ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-30  3:54                             ` Dave Jones
2001-12-30 10:07                             ` Alan Cox
2002-01-01  1:32                         ` Horst von Brand
2001-12-31 21:24                           ` Rob Landley
2002-01-01  1:46                           ` Dave Jones
2002-01-02 14:59                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-12-31  8:45                     ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-31 21:33                       ` Rob Landley
2002-01-02 10:14                         ` Daniel Phillips [this message]
2002-01-02 10:50                           ` Neil Brown
2002-01-02 11:07                             ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-27 18:02       ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 18:04       ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:06         ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 18:17         ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:41       ` John Alvord
2001-12-27 18:49       ` Russell King
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-07  5:26 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-27 21:24 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 20:45 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 20:55 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-23 14:18 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-23 14:13 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-23 14:11 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-18 15:18 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-18 18:08 ` John Alvord
2001-12-18 18:42   ` rsweet
2001-12-18 19:50 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-18 14:32 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-18 15:04 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-18 15:09   ` Dead2
2001-12-18 18:37     ` Ken Brownfield
     [not found]       ` <01121909274103.01840@manta>
2001-12-19  9:56         ` Dead2
2001-12-19 18:06           ` Ken Brownfield
2001-12-19 18:11         ` Ken Brownfield
2001-12-18  5:20 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-18  6:11 ` Craig Christophel
2001-12-18 12:19 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-18 14:38 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
2001-12-18 15:18   ` David Weinehall
2001-12-18 15:27     ` Momchil Velikov
2001-12-20  6:49   ` Kai Henningsen
2001-12-20  9:30     ` Momchil Velikov

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