From: Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>
To: Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>,
Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>, Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@redhat.com>
Cc: Oliver Xymoron <oxymoron@waste.org>,
Christer Weinigel <wingel@hog.ctrl-c.liu.se>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The direction linux is taking
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:14:28 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E16LiPl-00010E-00@starship.berlin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20011229190600.2556C36DE6@hog.ctrl-c.liu.se> <E16Ky48-0003hT-00@starship.berlin> <20020101053446.HLQO11986.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>
In-Reply-To: <20020101053446.HLQO11986.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>
On December 31, 2001 10:33 pm, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Monday 31 December 2001 03:45 am, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > On December 29, 2001 11:04 pm, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 04:03:34PM -0500, Benjamin LaHaise wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:37:49AM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > > > If you have N people trying to patch the same file, you'll require N
> > > > > releases and some poor shlep is going to have to resubmit their patch
> > > > > N-1 times before it gets in.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. Most patches are independant, and even touch different
> > > > functions.
> > >
> > > Really? And the data which shows this absolute statement to be true is
> > > where? I'm happy to believe data, but there is no data here.
> >
> > Ben's right. Most patches are independant because the work divides itself
> > up that way, because people talk about this stuff (on IRC) and cooperate,
> > and because the tree structure evolves to support the natural divisions ;)
>
> In a fan club, saying "andrea's the MM guy, talk to him" is only natural.
> It's a meritocracy, he's alpha geek on call in that area right now.
>
> In a fortune 500 bureaucracy, people are largely supposed to be
> interchangeable cogs. People's worth is measured in dollars, and somebody
> worth $70k a year should be swappable with somebody else worth $70k/year.
> (It's a bit more complex than that, there's certifications and experience,
> but somebody with a BA and 2 years experience working on inflatable widgets
> should be exchangeable with somebody else with a BA and 2 years experience
> working on inflatable widgets. If not, they'll "get up to speed", it's just
> a question of acquiring experience...)
>
> So having a single point of failure in the development process... It's
> unthinkable. What if that guy decides to retire? What if he gets hit by a
> bus. What if the competition hires him away? What if he DEMANDS MORE MONEY?
> (It's all about money in a corporation. It's all numbers. The bottom line.
> So if the whole project depends on one guy, logically he'll ask for as much
> salary as the project's worth. That's a lot of how management thinks.)
>
> So if you DO have someone breaking down the project into subsections, it's
> unlikely to be a developer, it would be a manager assigning areas of
> responsibility. And shuffling them around from time to time so nobody gets
> the idea they can't be replaced. But it's easiest just to scatter
> tasks over the group and keep things mixed up all the time...
>
> Fan clubs are all individuals. Bureaucracies try to eliminate the
> individual: the automated assembly line with no humans in it is the
> bureaucratic ideal...
>
> Totally different paradigm.
Yes, that's all +5 insightful, except... what makes you think any one of the
Linux core hackers is irreplaceable? I know you didn't say that, but you
did say 'single point of failure', and it amounts to the same thing.
--
Daniel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-01-02 10:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-12-27 15:46 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 16:01 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 16:33 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 16:30 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 16:53 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:03 ` Thomas Capricelli
2001-12-27 17:54 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 16:57 ` Russell King
2001-12-27 17:11 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 17:25 ` Erik Mouw
2001-12-27 18:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 18:24 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 18:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 19:16 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 19:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 19:46 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 19:57 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 20:07 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 20:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 21:13 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2001-12-27 21:18 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-27 21:28 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:37 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 19:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:16 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 19:33 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2001-12-27 21:20 ` Legacy Fishtank
2001-12-27 20:10 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 20:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:33 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 20:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-12-27 20:50 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-27 21:43 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2001-12-27 21:53 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 17:14 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 17:27 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-28 2:27 ` Alexander Viro
2001-12-27 20:43 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:52 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 17:59 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-12-27 17:38 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 17:55 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 17:59 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:38 ` Russell King
2001-12-28 4:03 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-29 18:02 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 19:06 ` Christer Weinigel
2001-12-29 19:18 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 19:37 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 19:58 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 20:04 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 20:30 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 22:09 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 22:24 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:01 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 22:59 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:09 ` Alexander Viro
2001-12-29 23:07 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:19 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 23:24 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:33 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:41 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2001-12-31 8:51 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-29 23:04 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:29 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 23:35 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:59 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-30 0:04 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-30 0:25 ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-12-29 22:26 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:02 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 20:01 ` Olivier Galibert
2001-12-29 20:04 ` Dave Jones
2002-01-02 15:06 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-12-29 21:03 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2001-12-29 22:04 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 22:58 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-29 23:14 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:33 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:38 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-29 23:47 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-29 23:50 ` Atomic Killer Attack Fish
2001-12-30 2:36 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-30 2:49 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-30 3:54 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-30 10:07 ` Alan Cox
2002-01-01 1:32 ` Horst von Brand
2001-12-31 21:24 ` Rob Landley
2002-01-01 1:46 ` Dave Jones
2002-01-02 14:59 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-12-31 8:45 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-31 21:33 ` Rob Landley
2002-01-02 10:14 ` Daniel Phillips [this message]
2002-01-02 10:50 ` Neil Brown
2002-01-02 11:07 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-27 18:02 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-27 18:04 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:06 ` Dave Jones
2001-12-27 18:17 ` Richard Gooch
2001-12-27 18:41 ` John Alvord
2001-12-27 18:49 ` Russell King
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-07 5:26 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-27 21:24 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 20:45 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-27 20:55 ` Larry McVoy
2001-12-23 14:18 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-23 14:13 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-23 14:11 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-18 15:18 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-18 18:08 ` John Alvord
2001-12-18 18:42 ` rsweet
2001-12-18 19:50 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-18 14:32 Dana Lacoste
2001-12-18 15:04 ` Alan Cox
2001-12-18 15:09 ` Dead2
2001-12-18 18:37 ` Ken Brownfield
[not found] ` <01121909274103.01840@manta>
2001-12-19 9:56 ` Dead2
2001-12-19 18:06 ` Ken Brownfield
2001-12-19 18:11 ` Ken Brownfield
2001-12-18 5:20 Eyal Sohya
2001-12-18 6:11 ` Craig Christophel
2001-12-18 12:19 ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-18 14:38 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
2001-12-18 15:18 ` David Weinehall
2001-12-18 15:27 ` Momchil Velikov
2001-12-20 6:49 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-12-20 9:30 ` Momchil Velikov
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