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From: Gerrit Huizenga <gh@us.ibm.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
Cc: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>, Lincoln Dale <ltd@cisco.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Martin Dalecki <dalecki@evision-ventures.com>,
	Padraig Brady <padraig@antefacto.com>,
	Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cantab.net>,
	Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56)
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:42:53 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E176eeA-0005Vz-00@w-gerrit2> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 11 May 2002 11:56:17 PDT. <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205111141070.879-100000@home.transmeta.com>

In message <Pine.LNX.4.44.0205111141070.879-100000@home.transmeta.com>, > : Lin
us Torvalds writes:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 11 May 2002, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > On Sat, May 11, 2002 at 11:35:21AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > > See my details on doing the perfect zero-copy copy thing.
> > >
> > > The mmap doesn't actually touch the page tables - it ends up being nothing
> > > but a "placeholder".
> 
> I'll write up the implementation notes and you'll see what I'm talking
> about:
> 
>  - readahead(fd, offset, size)
> 
>    Obvious (except the readahead is free to ignore the size, it's just a
>    hint)

[...snip... lots of good ideas...]
 
I'm not sure this is quite the same problem that Oracle (and others)
typically used O_DIRECT for (not trying to be an apologist here, just
making sure the right problem gets solved)...

Most of what Oracle was managing with O_DIRECT was its "Shared Global
Area", which is usually a region of all possible memory that the OS
and other applications aren't using.  It uses that space like a giant
buffer cache.  Most of the IO's for OLTP applications were little
bitty random 2K IOs.  So, their ideal goal was to have the ability to
say here's a list of 10,000 random 2K IOs I want you to do really
quickly and spread them out at these spots within the SGS.  Those IOs
can be read asynchronously, but there needs to be some way to know when
the bits make it from disk to memory.  Think of it as something like
a big async readv, ideally with the buffer cache and as much of the OS
out of the way as possible.

When the SGA is "full" (memory pressure) they do big async, no buffer
cache, non-deferred writev's (by non deferred, I mean that the write
is actually scheduled for disk, not buffered in memory indefinitely -
they really believe they are done with those buffers).

Now the mmap( MAP_UNCACHED ) thing might work, except that this isn't
really a private mapping - it's a shared mapping.  So something like
tmpfs might be the answer, where the tmpfs had a property of being
uncached (in fact, Oracle would love it if that space were pinned into
memory/non-pageable/non-swappable).  That way the clients don't block
taking page faults and the server schedules activities to get the
greatest throughput (e.g. schedule clients who wouldn't block).

Unfortunately, tmpfs takes away the niceness of the VM optimizations,
I fear.

Oh, and Database DSS workloads (Decision Support, scan all disks looking
for needles in a big haystack) has different tradeoffs, mostly needing
to focus on lots of sequential IO where pre-fetching and reading, and
discard buffers immediately after use are the primary focus and write
performance is not critical.

gerrit

  reply	other threads:[~2002-05-11 21:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 220+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-05-06  3:53 Linux-2.5.14 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-06  6:30 ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-06  6:51   ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-06 15:13   ` Linux-2.5.14 Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07  4:28     ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-09  3:53     ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-09  4:34       ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-09  6:02         ` Linux-2.5.14 Daniel Pittman
2002-05-06  6:47 ` Linux-2.5.14 bert hubert
2002-05-06  7:07   ` Linux-2.5.14 Andrew Morton
2002-05-06 14:00     ` Linux-2.5.14 Rik van Riel
2002-05-06  9:09 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 55 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-06 17:48   ` David Lang
2002-05-06 22:40   ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:10     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:31       ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:31         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 10:34           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:48             ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 11:19               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:35                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 12:36                 ` Andrey Panin
2002-05-07 11:32                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:38                 ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07  0:03   ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:12     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 11:39       ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 10:40         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 12:42           ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-07 11:22 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:02   ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 13:15     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:30       ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 15:08       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 15:36         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 16:20           ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-07 15:26             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 21:36               ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-08  0:25                 ` Guest section DW
2002-05-08  3:03                   ` Jan Harkes
2002-05-08  9:03                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:10                     ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 10:51                       ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 16:29           ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 16:51             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:29               ` Kai Henningsen
2002-05-08  7:48               ` Juan Quintela
2002-05-08 16:54                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:08             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-07 17:00               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:19                 ` benh
2002-05-07 17:24                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 17:30                     ` benh
2002-05-10  1:45                       ` Mike Fedyk
2002-05-07 17:43                     ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:05                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:26                         ` Alan Cox
2002-05-07 18:16                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 18:40                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:46                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-07 23:54                                 ` Roman Zippel
2002-05-08  6:57                                 ` Kai Henningsen
2002-05-08  9:37                                   ` Ian Molton
2002-05-09 13:58                                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-08  8:21                               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 17:27                   ` Jauder Ho
2002-05-08  8:13                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 18:29                   ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 18:02                     ` Greg KH
2002-05-07 18:44                     ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 18:44                       ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 19:21                         ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-07 19:58                           ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 18:49                     ` Thunder from the hill
2002-05-07 19:47                       ` Patrick Mochel
2002-05-07 22:03                         ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-08  8:14                           ` Russell King
2002-05-08 16:07                             ` Richard Gooch
2002-05-08 17:07                               ` Russell King
2002-05-08  8:18                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  8:07                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  7:58                 ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:18                   ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 11:09                     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 12:42                       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 11:23                         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-09  2:37                         ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09  3:10                           ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-09 10:05                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09 18:50                               ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  0:33                                 ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-10  0:48                                   ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  1:06                                     ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-13 17:51                                       ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-14 21:44                                         ` Andi Kleen
2002-05-10  6:50                                 ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-10  7:15                                   ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14IDE 56) Andrew Morton
2002-05-10  7:21                                     ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-10  8:12                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-10 10:14                                     ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-10 12:36                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-11  3:23                                         ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-13 11:19                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-13 23:58                                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-14  0:22                                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-14  2:43                                                 ` O_DIRECT on 2.4.19pre8aa2 md device Lincoln Dale
2002-05-21 15:51                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-22  1:18                                                     ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-22  2:51                                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-06-03  4:53                                                         ` high-end i/o performance of 2.4.19pre8aa2 (was: Re: O_DIRECT on 2.4.19pre8aa2 device) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-12 11:23                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14IDE 56) Lincoln Dale
2002-05-13 11:37                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2002-05-10 15:55                                   ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11  1:01                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 18:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:19                                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-11 18:35                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:37                                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-05-11 18:56                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 21:42                                                 ` Gerrit Huizenga [this message]
2002-05-11 18:43                                             ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2002-05-11 23:38                                             ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-12  0:36                                               ` yodaiken
2002-05-12  2:40                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2002-05-11 18:26                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 Alan Cox
2002-05-11 18:09                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-11 18:45                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) yodaiken
2002-05-11 19:55                                         ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 Bernd Eckenfels
2002-05-11 14:18                                     ` O_DIRECT performance impact on 2.4.18 (was: Re: [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56) Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2002-05-11 14:24                                       ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-11 18:25                                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 20:17                                           ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-11 22:27                                             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2002-05-11 23:17                                       ` Lincoln Dale
2002-05-09  4:16                           ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 56 Andre Hedrick
2002-05-09 13:32                             ` Alan Cox
2002-05-09 14:58                           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 18:21                     ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-08 18:59                       ` Dave Jones
2002-05-08 19:31                       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 21:16                         ` Erik Andersen
2002-05-08 22:14                           ` Alan Cox
2002-05-09 13:13                   ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-09 19:22                     ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-05-10 12:01                   ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-09 13:18                 ` Pavel Machek
2002-05-07 17:10             ` Richard B. Johnson
2002-05-08  7:36             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 17:22               ` Greg KH
2002-05-08 18:46   ` Denis Vlasenko
2002-05-07 11:27 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 57 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 13:16   ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 12:34     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 13:56       ` Mikael Pettersson
2002-05-07 14:04         ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 13:57       ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 14:08         ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 13:11           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 14:29           ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 13:36             ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-07 15:08               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-07 16:51             ` Dave Jones
2002-05-08  3:38               ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-05-08 11:47                 ` Dave Jones
2002-05-07 15:07           ` Padraig Brady
2002-05-07 17:21           ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-11 14:09   ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-05-07 15:03 ` [PATCH] IDE 58 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08  6:42   ` Paul Mackerras
2002-05-08  8:53     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 10:37       ` Bjorn Wesen
2002-05-08 10:16         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-08 19:06           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-08 19:10             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-08 20:31               ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 19:49                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-08 20:44                   ` Alan Cox
2002-05-08 20:04                     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 20:20                       ` Ian Molton
2002-05-08 20:36                     ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-08 20:29                 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-08 20:06                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 12:14                   ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-09 15:19               ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-05-09 20:20               ` Ian Molton
2002-05-08 11:00         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-09 19:58 ` [PATCH] 2.5.14 IDE 59 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-11  4:16   ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-05-11 16:59 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 60 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-11 18:47   ` Pierre Rousselet
2002-05-11 19:12     ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-11 19:52       ` Pierre Rousselet
2002-05-11 23:48         ` Andre Hedrick
2002-05-12 19:19   ` pdc202xx.c fails to compile in 2.5.15 Zlatko Calusic
2002-05-12 19:40     ` Jurriaan on Alpha
2002-05-12 22:00     ` Petr Vandrovec
2002-05-13 12:03       ` Alan Cox
2002-05-13  9:48 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 61 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 12:17 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 62 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 13:48   ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 13:02     ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 15:38       ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 15:45         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 16:54           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-05-13 16:55             ` Jens Axboe
2002-05-13 16:00               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 18:02             ` benh
2002-05-13 15:50         ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 17:52         ` benh
2002-05-13 15:55           ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-13 19:13             ` benh
2002-05-14  8:48               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-17 11:40               ` Martin Dalecki
2002-05-17  2:27                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2002-05-13 15:36   ` Tom Rini
2002-05-14 10:26 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 62a Martin Dalecki
2002-05-14 10:28 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 63 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-15 12:04 ` [PATCH] 2.5.15 IDE 64 Martin Dalecki
2002-05-15 13:12   ` Russell King
2002-05-15 12:14     ` Martin Dalecki

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