From: Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de>
To: Roman Zippel <zippel@linux-m68k.org>,
Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
Cc: Jamie Lokier <lk@tantalophile.demon.co.uk>,
Alexander Viro <viro@math.psu.edu>,
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Raceless module interface
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:48:41 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E17r3jV-0005en-00@starship> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0209161756540.28515-100000@serv>
On Monday 16 September 2002 23:36, Roman Zippel wrote:
> > > > I disagree with pushing the count into the filesystem structure: it
> > > > changes nothing except hide the fact that you're only keeping
> > > > reference counts for the sake of the module. Filesystems are low
> > > > performance impact, but other subsystems really don't want that atomic
> > > > inc and dec for every access.
> > >
> > > As I already said before, it doesn't has to be an atomic reference count.
> >
> > Please explain? It has to be atomic for all the interesting cases
> > (sure, fs mounting might be protected by a lock, but other things aren't).
>
> Let me explain it in a larger context. You and Daniel are making it really
> more complex than necessary. Only the module itself can really answer the
> question whether it's safe to unload or not.
Excuse me, Roman, but that's the central thesis of my [rfc]. If I didn't
express it concisely enough to make that obvious, I apologize.
> So all the module code
> needs to do is some general module management and ask the module somehow,
> whether it's safe to unload, when the user requests it. The easiest way
> for modules to check for this is to use counters, it's very simple and
> covers the majority of modules.
Err, check. In the [rfc].
> The few modules that don't want/can't use counters can use whatever they
> want and they usually know better how to synchronize with the part of the
> kernel where they installed their hooks into, without disturbing too much
> other parts of the kernel.
Check. In the [rfc].
> I really don't like the synchronize calls as general mechanism, either
> they have to to do too much and possibly disturb other parts without good
> reason
Check. In the [rfc].
> or modules have to take care of it (e.g. don't call somehow
> schedule() without extra protection). This makes the whole synchronize
> mechanism very fragile, which I'd prefer to keep it in the modules which
> really need it, where it can be better controlled.
Yuppers. Are there any points at all we disagree on?
--
Daniel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-09-16 21:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-09-04 18:02 Question about pseudo filesystems Jamie Lokier
2002-09-07 12:00 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-07 13:36 ` Alexander Viro
2002-09-07 18:27 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-07 19:47 ` Alexander Viro
2002-09-08 2:21 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-08 2:43 ` Alexander Viro
2002-09-15 1:41 ` Moving a mount point (was Re: Question about pseudo filesystems) Rob Landley
2002-09-08 16:00 ` Question about pseudo filesystems Daniel Phillips
2002-09-09 19:48 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-09 20:06 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 0:44 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-10 1:40 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 1:56 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-10 2:53 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 3:26 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-10 3:47 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 9:15 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 10:17 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-11 18:35 ` [RFC] Raceless module interface Daniel Phillips
2002-09-11 18:53 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-09-11 19:20 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-11 20:29 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-09-11 21:15 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-11 21:26 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-11 21:47 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 1:42 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 2:09 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-12 3:13 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 3:47 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 3:53 ` Alexander Viro
2002-09-12 4:11 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 4:40 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 5:27 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 14:46 ` Gerhard Mack
2002-09-13 0:39 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-13 2:23 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 5:35 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 4:52 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 5:58 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 7:00 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-13 8:18 ` Helge Hafting
2002-09-12 3:32 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-12 1:31 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 9:10 ` Oliver Neukum
2002-09-12 11:27 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-12 13:03 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-12 13:44 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-13 1:30 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-13 2:19 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 6:51 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-13 13:34 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 13:52 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-13 14:09 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 14:33 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-13 14:44 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 14:59 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-13 15:17 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 15:27 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-13 15:37 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 2:17 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-16 16:13 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 16:36 ` Understanding the Principles of Argumentation #3 Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 16:42 ` Robinson Maureira Castillo
2002-09-16 17:29 ` Cort Dougan
2002-09-16 22:31 ` David Woodhouse
2002-10-01 14:13 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-10-01 14:27 ` David Woodhouse
2002-09-13 15:59 ` [RFC] Raceless module interface Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 3:14 ` David Gibson
2002-09-13 10:35 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-13 13:53 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 15:13 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-13 15:30 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 15:55 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-13 16:09 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-13 16:39 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-13 17:12 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 0:24 ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-16 1:49 ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-16 21:36 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-16 21:48 ` Daniel Phillips [this message]
2002-09-16 22:44 ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-11 15:28 ` Question about pseudo filesystems Bill Davidsen
2002-09-11 19:36 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-09 20:12 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-09 22:56 ` Jamie Lokier
2002-09-10 1:39 ` Alexander Viro
2002-09-09 20:18 ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 6:48 ` Kai Henningsen
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